Wimbledon

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

RE: Wimbledon

indiana · Tennis legend

stevemcqueen wrote:
A unified approach would have taken much, much longer to agree. You can argue that Wimbledon is showing some leadership. I feel sorry for Russian players who are openly critical of this crass war and Putin's regime. Perhaps a dozen of them will lose out financially. Compare this with the number of Ukrainians who are no longer able to make a living or who are maimed or lying dead in horrble circumstances.

-- Edited by stevemcqueen on Wednesday 20th of April 2022 03:28:36 PM

And what real effect on the horrible events in Ukraine does anyone really think such unilateral tennis action in the UK will have?! It's arguably just gesture politics.

Much more likely now to be a rather ugly internal tennis sideshow which some may even wrongly see as some indicating some support for Russia.

This does need that unified approach.

indiana · Tennis legend

stevemcqueen wrote:
Mark1968, what are your thoughts regarding the exclusion of South Africa from International sport in the era of Apartheid?

But when were say individual tennis and golf players banned from competing around the world?

And the big impact of the exclusion that was imposed was through unified actions.

stevemcqueen · Futures qualifying

I agree that banning Russia and Belarus from Wimbledon is little more than gesture politics. But not banning them is acquiescence.

The Apartheid era lasted over 50 years. I hope that the war with Ukraine will be shorter than that. The ATP, the WTA and many other sporting organisations have the opportunity to join Wimbledon's gesture politics. Or they could acquiesce.

emmsie69 · ATP level

12 million Ukranians have been displaced through no fault of their own. I'll save my outrage for them, not a few privileged tennis players.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Have the WTA made a statement?

Ignoring the actual wrongs and rights, I think the ATP are a complete load of wimps in general and I have zero respect for them (have cancelled the ATP TV subscription)

They refused to risk upsetting the Chinese. Have failed to do anything meaningful when Zverev attacked the umpire....

I think unified action is best but I don't think it's necessary.

And I absolutely wouldn't rely on the ATP to do anything faintly controversial.....yes, just play under a blank flag, that'll do nicely....

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Agree with Stevemcqueen, Emmsie and CD on the above. The problem is the atp statement paints them into a corner to now react. They may leave themselves nowhere to go but stopping ranking points for British events, and it could leave some players feeling they need to boycott. Interesting that none are saying anything as individuals yet, probably waiting to see where public opinion goes.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

No wta statement but Steve Simon being quoted by Jon Wertheim in SI with a strong piece about why Wimbledon is wrong

foobarbaz · Strong Club Player

Big money at stake in the US if an organization gets turned over in the law courts.

I reckon that Wimbledon / LTA have done the right thing. I agree with others on this chat, did Ukrainian civilians get the chance to perch on the fence? No.

Barefoot · Lower Club Player

Chatting with my husband about this this evening. He is also in favour of the ban, unlike me.

My attitude remains that we should only be punishing individual civilians if it makes a difference to the bigger picture. Team bans, flag bans? Yes please though, carry on. The UK acting alone just plays into the narrative (in Russia) that we are the bad guys acting off our own backs.. If everyone did it across all tournaments I may think differently - then it might spark thoughts over there that actually, theres something in everyone turning against them.

Hear all the eminently correct points that Ukrainian citizens had no choice in this, but Im not a fan of dragging any individuals in if can be helped.

Lambda · Futures qualifying

The WTA pretty much say the same as the ATP.

The WTA strongly condemns the actions that have been taken by Russia and its unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. We continue our humanitarian relief efforts to support Ukraine through Tennis Plays for Peace.

We are, however, very disappointed in todays announcement by the AELTC and the LTA to ban individual athletes who are from Russia and Belarus from competing in the upcoming UK grass court events. A fundamental principal of the WTA is that individual athletes may participate in professional tennis events based on merit and without any form of discrimination. That principle is expressly set forth in our rules and has been agreed to by both AELTC and LTA. Prohibitions against discrimination are also clearly expressed in their own rules and the Grand Slam rules.

As the WTA has consistently stated, individual athletes should not be penalized or prevented from competing due to where they are from, or the decisions made by the governments of their countries. Discrimination, and the decision to focus such discrimination against athletes competing on their own as individuals, is neither fair nor justified. The WTA will continue to apply its rules to reject discrimination and ensure that all athletes are able to compete at our Tour events should they qualify to do so, a position that until todays announcement has been shared across professional tennis. The WTA will be evaluating its next steps and what actions may be taken regarding these decisions.

indiana · Tennis legend

Barefoot wrote:
Chatting with my husband about this this evening. He is also in favour of the ban, unlike me.

My attitude remains that we should only be punishing individual civilians if it makes a difference to the bigger picture. Team bans, flag bans? Yes please though, carry on. The UK acting alone just plays into the narrative (in Russia) that we are the bad guys acting off our own backs.. If everyone did it across all tournaments I may think differently - then it might spark thoughts over there that actually, theres something in everyone turning against them.

Hear all the eminently correct points that Ukrainian citizens had no choice in this, but Im not a fan of dragging any individuals in if can be helped.

This.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The only problem with the 'we should only do it if it makes a difference' argument, though, is that we can't look forward and see what actually would make a difference.

I hear the people who say it'll make the Russians hate us, or that it'll unite the Russians together behind Putin as they'll feel attacked, or that'll provoke Putin more. And they might be right.

But we don't know that.

And some people might says that's just being a wimp, or 'acquiescing' as stevemcqueen says.

Because we really don't know what would make a difference.

And so sometimes, instead of second guessing the ifs and ans, maybe it is just best to make a principled stand and see what happens.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
The only problem with the 'we should only do it if it makes a difference' argument, though, is that we can't look forward and see what actually would make a difference.

I hear the people who say it'll make the Russians hate us, or that it'll unite the Russians together behind Putin as they'll feel attacked, or that'll provoke Putin more. And they might be right.

But we don't know that.

And some people might says that's just being a wimp, or 'acquiescing' as stevemcqueen says.

Because we really don't know what would make a difference.

And so sometimes, instead of second guessing the ifs and ans, maybe it is just best to make a principled stand and see what happens.

Yep, definitely.

indiana · Tennis legend

Of course we don't know the future but that shouldn't prevent people trying to make a reasoned judgement on what is most likely to have most effect and/or less ineffective chaos.

As opposed to just going for it - hey look at us, we've got principles, and to feel how jolly good we are. It's got to surely be much more about having an effect on the horrible situation ( for however much ( combined ) sporting bodies can have an effect ) than going out on a limb grandstanding our principles.

It remains for now IMO probably a very poor unilateral decision. I rreally do hope though that it proves not to to be as pretty useless, chaotic and possibly counterproductive as I fear.