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Post Info TOPIC: Weeks 26 & 27 - Wimbledon - main draw (grass)


County player

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RE: Weeks 26 & 27 - Wimbledon - main draw (grass)


Federer's serving display reminded me of the Murray/Roddick 09 semifinal.

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TMH


Futures qualifying

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Meh. Federer is a complete servebot these days. His gameplay was patchy at best. Djokovic should have him on Sunday.

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Tennis legend

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Coup Droit wrote:

It even applies to their own team - Marion says she has given up telling everyone her name is Bartoli, Italian, accent on the penultimate syllable - like macaroni. She just knows she's fighting a losing battle and accepts it's Bartoli, like Barnaby.


I find that not only very curious, but also hard to credit, given that the stress on syllables in French is usually fairly even, though I'll concede that you generally get a moderate amount of stress on the final syllable of a word (unless it contains a mute "e") or of a sense group.  I've only ever pronounced it BAR-toli (listen here), by analogy with the pronunciation of the surname of the great Italian mezzo-soprano, Cecilia Bartoli (second choice here).  Likewise, the surnames of David GIN-ola & Eric CAN-tona... wink  



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Tennis legend

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With an Italian brother-in-law, and lots of knock-on relations, I can assure you that they completely agree with Marion that, in Italian, Bartoli follows the general Italian rule of accent on the penultimate syllable (although it's obviously true that there are many exceptions and names are always one thing that attract exceptions, and may indeed vary from region to region).

In French, there is no syllabic stress/accentuation in a word (no lexical stress, only prosodic stress) so the french pronounce it more Bar-to-li, very measured and equi-stressed (although definitely with an 'oh' sound for the middle syllable).

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Ah well, next year ...

I have never had quite such a good feeling about Andy's chances going into a Slam. Not sure he was favourite ( I had it close with Djokovic, who was clearly the bookies' favourite ), but just that I was never as optimistic re Andy's ultimate title chance. However, Fed's form throughout and particularly yesterday was a surprise.

It did bring some memories of Andy's first Slam final vs Fed in the 2008 US Open when Fed controlled the match largely through Andy's lack of depth, though actually I thought ( rather amazingly ) Fed played better on this occasion ( Andy definitely did ) and certainly served better yesterday and the lack of depth particularly on return of serve was much more forced. However, it did leave Fed even when he wasn't winning serve points on his first or second shots still so much in control of these points.


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Tennis legend

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Coup Droit wrote:

With an Italian brother-in-law, and lots of knock-on relations, I can assure you that they completely agree with Marion that, in Italian, Bartoli follows the general Italian rule of accent on the penultimate syllable (although it's obviously true that there are many exceptions and names are always one thing that attract exceptions, and may indeed vary from region to region).

In French, there is no syllabic stress/accentuation in a word (no lexical stress, only prosodic stress) so the french pronounce it more Bar-to-li, very measured and equi-stressed (although definitely with an 'oh' sound for the middle syllable).


If the name were spelt with a double "l" (as in "Bertolli", the olive oil people), I could accept that.  As it isn't, I don't, so we'll just have to agree to agree to disagree & I'll continue to pronounce "Bartoli" BAR-toli.  



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Tennis legend

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Well, I think Marion should have last say - it is her name, after all - and she is clear that it should be Bar-TOL-i

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Yup. I get a bit irritated when people persist in calling me Madeleine, Madleen, Madelaine etc. after I have told them it is Mad'linn. Though actually I will answer to anything including "hey you" so I understand how Bartoli, Sharapova and Tomic find it easier just to give in.

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County player

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Coup Droit wrote:

I agree, Stircrazy - Sue Barker's pronunciation (and others) drives me mad /makes me laugh.

It even applies to their own team - Marion says she has given up telling everyone her name is Bartoli, Italian, accent on the penultimate syllable - like macaroni. She just knows she's fighting a losing battle and accepts it's Bartoli, like Barnaby.

And why are Lloyd and Castle calling the doubles player ' El - rich' when his name is ' Er - lich' ???

Mind you, does anyone know in Russian, how should the 'ova' names be pronounced?

Why do the commentators say Sharapova (emphasis on a long 'o') ? And yet say 'Kuznetsova' (emphasis on the 'net' and with no long 'o')?

If you go through all the 'ova' names, it seems to be random when they say it one way or the other..... I would have thought they'd be the same . . .


 A little late, perhaps, but I speak Russian and my girlfriend is Ukrainian, so perhaps I can help...

Sharapova ought to be Sha-RA-pova - with the stress on the second A, and not Sha-ra-POH-va as people seem to insist on saying. Kuznetsova is for the most part pronounced correctly - as you say, emphasis on the 'net'.

Same with other current and former 'Russians' such as Kournikova - ought to be Kour-NIK-ova, not Kour-ni-KOH-va - and Marakova - should be Ma-RA-kova, not Ma-ra-KOH-va, etc.

smile



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Mark from Yorkshire

TMH


Futures qualifying

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Speaking of the Russians, is the 'o' sound pronounced more like 'uh' or 'oh'?

I've always pronounced it 'Sha-ra-poh-va', but then pronounced Kuznetsova 'Kuz-net-suh-va'. Of course the 'so' pronunciation might differ from the 'ko' pronunciation. Or more likely I've just been saying one or the other (or both) wrong for years.

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Tennis legend

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Thanks, BradMarx, that's brilliant.

It's also how I remember being told ages ago (but wasn't 100% sure if memory served me right).



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County player

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TMH wrote:

Speaking of the Russians, is the 'o' sound pronounced more like 'uh' or 'oh'?

I've always pronounced it 'Sha-ra-poh-va', but then pronounced Kuznetsova 'Kuz-net-suh-va'. Of course the 'so' pronunciation might differ from the 'ko' pronunciation. Or more likely I've just been saying one or the other (or both) wrong for years.


 Actually, neither.

If the stress is on the 'o', it's pronounced like the 'o' in 'moss'.

If the 'o' is unstressed (i.e. the stress is on a different vowel in the word), then it sounds more like a really short 'a' - like in 'basket' or 'cat', although not as obvious. It's hard to explain.

So, in reality, Sharapova should sound more like Sha-RA-pa-va than Sha-RA-po-va.

 

...if I ever meet you in person I'll explain it.



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Mark from Yorkshire

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Haha, thanks anyway. I think I'll just have to accept that I'll never pronounce it correctly and hope I don't piss off too many Eastern European speakers in the meantime. Maybe I'll just refer to them by their first name...

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