Girls: 2024 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

Densher · Intermediate Club Player

Girls: 2024 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Followed by Isabella Wong, Erin Pearce, Amelie Brookes, and Sophya Devas

And Ruby Cooling beat Isabelle Britton in a MTB

And Maralie Raath won easily

Lambda · Futures level

Coup Droit wrote:
9vicman wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
THe main draw is now out

With (in my view) no problems for Mimi or Mika or Hannah in their quarters

But Isabelle Lacy and Hep are in the same quarter, and with Hollie Smart too

I dipped into some of the quali matches today, which was nice, but nothing really of any note to say
It's nice to see all the top girls competing. When growing up, the national junior championships were such a pivotal part of the year with covered (Queen's), hard (Wimbledon) and grass (Eastbourne) court championships. And then in 1991, they switched to one per age group, but still relatively high profile. And there were also regular winter indoor junior circuit events.
Now the national junior events seem quite low key. And yet we are producing more top players than the 80s/90s. Curious as to how important national junior events are to a player's development or whether better to test themselves against other opposition.
From the little bit I know, it seems that 10 years ago, say, the National Championships were nothing events - the top players never took part
And then the LTA realised that it looked stupid that the U18 British National Champion was some girl who was about 5th best in the country, and by a country margin
Embarrassing even
And so there was a policy move to prioritise the Nationals which meant (a) telling all their players who received LTA help and funding that they were expected to participate, it was part of the deal, and (b) giving far more generous benes i.e. wildcard into Wimbly adult qualis for the U18 winner, and all the other tiers below that - it's a big incentive now
Carrot and stick
And it seems to me that they've been very successful - the girls event this year, for instance, has got other forums, worldwide, talking about it - everyone wants to see who gets bragging rights - all five top players are there

It's the requirement to play the junior nationals to be eligible for grass wildcards that have the top juniors playing these days. The wildcards on offer to the finalists arent much of an incentive to Hannah, Mimi or Mika as they don't need or I'm sure would get most of them anyway. Although I guess it does remove any uncertainty for them about getting that Wimby QWC (even if we all think they are shoo ins).

9vicman · Strong Club Player

Lambda wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

9vicman wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
THe main draw is now out

With (in my view) no problems for Mimi or Mika or Hannah in their quarters

But Isabelle Lacy and Hep are in the same quarter, and with Hollie Smart too

I dipped into some of the quali matches today, which was nice, but nothing really of any note to say
It's nice to see all the top girls competing. When growing up, the national junior championships were such a pivotal part of the year with covered (Queen's), hard (Wimbledon) and grass (Eastbourne) court championships. And then in 1991, they switched to one per age group, but still relatively high profile. And there were also regular winter indoor junior circuit events.
Now the national junior events seem quite low key. And yet we are producing more top players than the 80s/90s. Curious as to how important national junior events are to a player's development or whether better to test themselves against other opposition.
From the little bit I know, it seems that 10 years ago, say, the National Championships were nothing events - the top players never took part
And then the LTA realised that it looked stupid that the U18 British National Champion was some girl who was about 5th best in the country, and by a country margin
Embarrassing even
And so there was a policy move to prioritise the Nationals which meant (a) telling all their players who received LTA help and funding that they were expected to participate, it was part of the deal, and (b) giving far more generous benes i.e. wildcard into Wimbly adult qualis for the U18 winner, and all the other tiers below that - it's a big incentive now
Carrot and stick
And it seems to me that they've been very successful - the girls event this year, for instance, has got other forums, worldwide, talking about it - everyone wants to see who gets bragging rights - all five top players are there

It's the requirement to play the junior nationals to be eligible for grass wildcards that have the top juniors playing these days. The wildcards on offer to the finalists arent much of an incentive to Hannah, Mimi or Mika as they don't need or I'm sure would get most of them anyway. Although I guess it does remove any uncertainty for them about getting that Wimby QWC (even if we all think they are shoo ins).

Had forgotten that the junior nationals were even more low profile than they are now. It's right that all the top players should put their reputations on the line, even if there needs to be a stick/carrot approach.

Back in the day there used to be capacity crowds at Devonshire Park for the junior grass court finals, and Sky broadcast the finals the first year they were held at Nottingham (incidentally the first time Sue Barker worked for them). Daily coverage in the Times/Telegraph too.

Anyway the sport isn't covered in the same way these days, but encouraging to have such strong competition on court.

Rose · Improver

3. We will strengthen our National Tournament Programme to ensure the best players benefit from competing domestically.

The Winter National Tour events will become stand-alone Grade 2 events rather than being part of a Circuit and linking to the Winter National Tour Finals (Grade 1).
This change will mean we can create a true Winter Nationals (Grade 1) with more top 20 players competing.
> We will review the position of all Summer and Winter Grade 1 and 2 events and ensure the Junior Nationals takes priority and become a showcase in the calendar.
> We will ensure Junior Nationals feed up to high profile Grass Court tournaments or
GB Selections. e.g. 18U Winner awarded a Wild Card to Junior Wimbledon.
> This area will be owned and championed by the Performance Team (delivered by the Competitions Team) who will set clear objectives and priorities to ensure that the best players take part and are ready for the international game.

"Winning nationals should be an ambition"
Comments:

Many people believe that Nationals should be a bigger, more open event, with qualifying and possibly even pre-qualifying draws so there is more of an opportunity to win your way
The suggesting of offering incentives was well received - however these should not just be for the winner
The cost of competing at this level should be reviewed

Rose · Improver

The text above has been copied (not very well, sorry!) from a big consultation review in 2018 involving the competition team, officials, coaches, parents
There were around 9 topics of discussion that were voted on - including changing the age group cut off date to January 1st (done), removing mini tennis ratings (done) and various other points (some done, some not)
The problem of the top players not playing nationals was discussed in a lot of detail as it was a big concern of the LTA. They were embarrassed that the top players had more incentive to compete abroad than they did to compete on this country. They definitely seem to have resolved the issue. All players are told that they will not be considered for wildcards if they do not play it

twentytoone · Lower Club Player

Henry Searle isnt playing this year does that mean he wont be considered for wildcards

Lambda · Futures level

twentytoone wrote:
Henry Searle isnt playing this year does that mean he wont be considered for wildcards

I assume he will be sitting his A-Levels this year and won't be available for most of the grass season. Should he be available for Wimbledon qualifying, the AELTC will consider him for a qualifying wildcard without a LTA nomination as last year's boys champion.

9vicman · Strong Club Player

Thanks for sharing Rose. That's a really interesting read. Back in the day (and realise I am starting to sound like an old codger), the draws were up to 64 in size. For a long time entries were based on a list of players you had beaten (you submitted your best results on your entry form) until ratings were iintroduced. And then eventually qualifying was added.

The grass court championships in particular were a huge festival over 2 weeks: 16 and 12 & under in week one, and 18 and 14 & under in week two. Many families came down for the whole fortnight.

Alongside the national championships were winter series events in three age groups (18, 16, 14) held over two and a half days, with all players guaranteed 5 matches.

Grass court nationals were cancelled, as were 12 and under nationals, and the junior winter series events disappeared too. But often these things go full circle.

Lambda · Futures level

In doubles Mika and Mimi pair up to be top seeds and the US college bound Hannahs (Read and Rylatt) are 2nd seeds. Hannah K, Isabelle L and Hep all pass on entering.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

9vicman wrote:
Thanks for sharing Rose. That's a really interesting read. Back in the day (and realise I am starting to sound like an old codger), the draws were up to 64 in size. For a long time entries were based on a list of players you had beaten (you submitted your best results on your entry form) until ratings were iintroduced. And then eventually qualifying was added.

The grass court championships in particular were a huge festival over 2 weeks: 16 and 12 & under in week one, and 18 and 14 & under in week two. Many families came down for the whole fortnight.

Alongside the national championships were winter series events in three age groups (18, 16, 14) held over two and a half days, with all players guaranteed 5 matches.

Grass court nationals were cancelled, as were 12 and under nationals, and the junior winter series events disappeared too. But often these things go full circle.

I have to admit I dont remember these at all, so probably take much notice of junior tennis back in the day - Im guessing we are similarly aged, Vicman, Im late 50s.

when was this you are taking about, decade wise - I cant remember them going to Nottingham at all or being on Sky!

Oscariyan · Lower Club Player

Ah I was hoping Searle might get some WCs to Eastbourne and surbiton or ilkley? And would he not get a Wimbledon MD WC as last years junior champion? Not sure how WCs fully work!

Oops sorry likewise I shouldnt have added to this in this thread!

-- Edited by Oscariyan on Sunday 7th of April 2024 10:08:36 PM

-- Edited by Oscariyan on Sunday 7th of April 2024 10:21:07 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Although hes still in the rankings, hasnt Henry effectively left the junior game? As such, presumably he wouldnt be obliged to play these and, as such, should be open to whatever wildcards are thrown at him? Id hope the LTA wouldnt hold him to the rules theyve set around this event? Or maybe Im naive ?!

edit - sorry, this whole conversation re Henry should probably be in the boys thread. Apologies for me adding to it!

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Sunday 7th of April 2024 10:11:10 PM

Tennis2024 · Improver

JonH comes home wrote:
Although hes still in the rankings, hasnt Henry effectively left the junior game? As such, presumably he wouldnt be obliged to play these and, as such, should be open to whatever wildcards are thrown at him? Id hope the LTA wouldnt hold him to the rules theyve set around this event? Or maybe Im naive ?!

edit - sorry, this whole conversation re Henry should probably be in the boys thread. Apologies for me adding to it!

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Sunday 7th of April 2024 10:11:10 PM

I would think/hope that Henry searle would have been offered a wild card for Wimbledon but I may be wrong! However I think hes focusing on seniors now?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Wins so far for:

Amelie Brookes
Mia Wainwright
Allegra K Davies