Junior funding.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

Junior funding.

Kolohead · Junior player

Spot on I am afraid

indiana · Tennis legend

Presumably in the GB case the 'in group' have quite a bit of funding and coach support so it is made a lot easier. But the details I know not ...

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:
Presumably in the GB case the 'in group' have quite a bit of funding and coach support so it is made a lot easier. But the details I know not ...

That's kind of what I was wondering..

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Sometimes an academy will organise a trip during school holidays which means parents don't have to go themselves, although they do have to split the expense of the accompanying coaches between between all the players. Can work out a bit cheaper but still quite an expense. The new ITF structure with fewer places at tournaments which earn WTA points but places reserved for high ranking juniors may well impact severely on the junior circuit, with only those who can afford to play on it regularly bothering at all.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The Optimist wrote:
Sometimes an academy will organise a trip during school holidays which means parents don't have to go themselves, although they do have to split the expense of the accompanying coaches between between all the players. Can work out a bit cheaper but still quite an expense. The new ITF structure with fewer places at tournaments which earn WTA points but places reserved for high ranking juniors may well impact severely on the junior circuit, with only those who can afford to play on it regularly bothering at all.

Sorry, The O, I don't quite follow - why would the junior tour be less valuable next year with the new system?

At the moment, the junior tour doesn't give the players anything in terms of adult tennis - it's irrelevant.

Surely, if from next year the junior rankings now give places into the adult tournaments, then that lifts the value of the junior events and makes players more likely to play them?

Or I'm missing something?

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Not a very well thought through comment on my part!! The thoughts going through my brain were:

Currently many kids play ITF juniors for experience (as you get older, the UK is a very small pool) or in the hope that they will be noticed by the LTA and given some help. Certainly, the LTA require ITF points on their new player pathway but this route is closed to many simply because it is so expensive. On the face of it, the new ITF structure doesn't change these motivations. However, the new structure makes it very very difficult to get into a professional tournament as a newbie. I suspect that juniors will prefer to spend their time in the transition events (replacing 15Ks) which, if they reach the latter stages, give them points to get a place in a professional tournament as time moves on. As I understand it they won't get WTA/ATP points or money for wins in these events so for my mind the families of most juniors who are not able to play abroad consistently will prefer to spend their money on these events rather than juniors. The places reserved in ATP/WTA events for juniors are only for those in the top 100 - only those who can play a really full schedule of ITFs.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, maybe, but the places reserved for the top 100 juniors is not in the ATP/WTA events, only in the transition tour events. So it's not such a big deal as all that.

And it's not right when you say they won't get any money. The ITF site says:

"The new transition tour tournaments, which will offer $15,000 in prize money, will replace the existing $15,000 mens and womens tournaments on the ITF Pro Circuit in 2019, and will award ITF Entry Points instead of ATP and WTA ranking points."

So the prize money is left unchanged, they'll still get the same money.

So, honestly, I don't see it will make that much difference - after all, hardly any newbies play in the challengers qualis at the moment anyway.

Kolohead · Junior player

I can see what the optimist is saying. Playing some ITFs as a junior is great for experience but to reach the top100 will cost a lot. I know of two lads inside top 25under 18 uk who have never played an ITF and are off to a div1 uni in the states. What I m not sure about is how easy or hard it will be for a 19 year old to playvthe new transition tour events if say ranked 800 under 18

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

But what's the difference ? Everyone will still get in as before - the junior top 100 spots are for the main draw and a little bene but they don't change the main criteria - unranked players will have to go through qualis just as before (or get wildcards). There's no difference for anyone with the new set up UNLESS the number of 15ks drastically reduces (in which case it will obviously be harder for everyone).

Kolohead · Junior player

Hi yeah it seems like little change. I thought new transition was for new players and lower pros and blocked higher ranked players from entering. Its like another level is needed like a semi pro level only for that type of player. I guess thats the British tour but of course no ITF ranking points gained. So how does this fictitious 19 year old I mentioned get a foot on a the ladder

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just the same as he does now, as I understand it.

He plays 15ks qualis, then 15k MD, scores ITF points, those points then get him into ATPs.....

Kolohead · Junior player

no changes then. Cant see the point of all the cost of the new tour

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Kolohead wrote:
no changes then. Cant see the point of all the cost of the new tour

I might be missing something, kolo, so it's not gospel !!! smile

I think the number of events will be important and that would certainly change availability of places (assuming we had the same number of players chasing those places).

And some people have said certain countries (e.g. Sharm) might drop out - although I don't see why - same money, score points....

But some have said there may be more events i.e. because they are getting rid of the 'must have three events on the trot' rule. So Malaysia (for instance), I read, doesn't normally ever have a woman's 15k because it can't organise three. But now it plans to do one. To our shame, it might even mean there will be more in the UK (though don't hold your breath!). But in theory at least, we could have the odd one here and there, based round Wimbly, maybe. Or maybe we should leave it to the Irish and they'll step up.....

Kolohead · Junior player

Yeah I just dont get why there are not loads more events in the uk. Means more spectators can watch and the lower pros or those starting out can save on costs. That I thought was the point of transition tour and a rumour I once heard was that British tours would act as transition tour events. That I thought would b a smart move as it would also encourage more tennis players to stay here for uni making our uni scene even stronger . Alas perhaps that was just some wild theory before the makeup of the new tour was known