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Post Info TOPIC: Junior funding.


Satellite level

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Junior funding.


Wasnt sure where to post this- hope no one posted elsewhere : a new crowdfunding app that Felix M is using

tennishead.net/innovative-technology-solves-aspiring-british-pros-problem-i-faced-a-funding-challenge-so-i-turned-to-fantium/

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Lower Club Player

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Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.



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Tennis legend

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TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 This is why you need a deep tennis system, that looks to the future

Because, basically, in all European countries, it's mum and dad who coach the child up until he/she is of an age to get federation funding.

If you have a country where there are tons and tons of adults who are roughly British Tour level, then you have instant free coaching for all the littl'uns that those adults produce

 



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Satellite level

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Coup Droit wrote:
TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 This is why you need a deep tennis system, that looks to the future

Because, basically, in all European countries, it's mum and dad who coach the child up until he/she is of an age to get federation funding.

If you have a country where there are tons and tons of adults who are roughly British Tour level, then you have instant free coaching for all the littl'uns that those adults produce

 


 Yes, Dan having a rant about the elitism in British tennis.

He also says sending players on the college route isnt helping - Im a bit of a fan of the college pathway, so not sure I agree with him on that point. A number of very successful tour players have taken the college route.
As TW pointed out tennis is expensive. Many families of Brit players simply cant afford all that a D1 college tennis scholarship may cover eg coaching, kit, rackets, Physio, S&C, travel, food, accommodation, good level of competition and training partners week in week out, plus a college education. Over 4 or 5 years, thats a significant amount of $. Many families who allegedly could afford it (Arthur Fery, Max Basing spring to mind) also chose the college route too 

Need a few peeps like CD with some strategic vision on the LTA board wink

https://tennishead.net/dan-evans-rants-about-elitist-british-tennis-after-french-open-loss/



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Tennis legend

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Elegant Point wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 This is why you need a deep tennis system, that looks to the future

Because, basically, in all European countries, it's mum and dad who coach the child up until he/she is of an age to get federation funding.

If you have a country where there are tons and tons of adults who are roughly British Tour level, then you have instant free coaching for all the littl'uns that those adults produce

 


 Yes, Dan having a rant about the elitism in British tennis.

He also says sending players on the college route isnt helping - Im a bit of a fan of the college pathway, so not sure I agree with him on that point. A number of very successful tour players have taken the college route.
As TW pointed out tennis is expensive. Many families of Brit players simply cant afford all that a D1 college tennis scholarship may cover eg coaching, kit, rackets, Physio, S&C, travel, food, accommodation, good level of competition and training partners week in week out, plus a college education. Over 4 or 5 years, thats a significant amount of $. Many families who allegedly could afford it (Arthur Fery, Max Basing spring to mind) also chose the college route too 

Need a few peeps like CD with some strategic vision on the LTA board wink

https://tennishead.net/dan-evans-rants-about-elitist-british-tennis-after-french-open-loss/


Now you're talking biggrin

But you know that then I'd bump into Jeremy Bates all the time and have to be polite....which isn't happening  no

So probably best not....biggrin



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Lower Club Player

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Elegant Point wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 This is why you need a deep tennis system, that looks to the future

Because, basically, in all European countries, it's mum and dad who coach the child up until he/she is of an age to get federation funding.

If you have a country where there are tons and tons of adults who are roughly British Tour level, then you have instant free coaching for all the littl'uns that those adults produce

 


 Yes, Dan having a rant about the elitism in British tennis.

He also says sending players on the college route isnt helping - Im a bit of a fan of the college pathway, so not sure I agree with him on that point. A number of very successful tour players have taken the college route.
As TW pointed out tennis is expensive. Many families of Brit players simply cant afford all that a D1 college tennis scholarship may cover eg coaching, kit, rackets, Physio, S&C, travel, food, accommodation, good level of competition and training partners week in week out, plus a college education. Over 4 or 5 years, thats a significant amount of $. Many families who allegedly could afford it (Arthur Fery, Max Basing spring to mind) also chose the college route too 

Need a few peeps like CD with some strategic vision on the LTA board wink

https://tennishead.net/dan-evans-rants-about-elitist-british-tennis-after-french-open-loss/


Spot on, Dan!  However, it's not just working class children.....lower middle class children find it difficult when ma and pa can't fund their tennis.  It is an elitist sport, for sure.  The LTA narrow down their "catch" too early.  I've seen many talented children not go further because of the money.  Plus, some parents, along with their wealth, invest in their children on court very early, very hard, so they shine before those without the finance even have a chance to.  Something has to change. 



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Tennis legend

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TW18 wrote:
Elegant Point wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 This is why you need a deep tennis system, that looks to the future

Because, basically, in all European countries, it's mum and dad who coach the child up until he/she is of an age to get federation funding.

If you have a country where there are tons and tons of adults who are roughly British Tour level, then you have instant free coaching for all the littl'uns that those adults produce

 


 Yes, Dan having a rant about the elitism in British tennis.

He also says sending players on the college route isnt helping - Im a bit of a fan of the college pathway, so not sure I agree with him on that point. A number of very successful tour players have taken the college route.
As TW pointed out tennis is expensive. Many families of Brit players simply cant afford all that a D1 college tennis scholarship may cover eg coaching, kit, rackets, Physio, S&C, travel, food, accommodation, good level of competition and training partners week in week out, plus a college education. Over 4 or 5 years, thats a significant amount of $. Many families who allegedly could afford it (Arthur Fery, Max Basing spring to mind) also chose the college route too 

Need a few peeps like CD with some strategic vision on the LTA board wink

https://tennishead.net/dan-evans-rants-about-elitist-british-tennis-after-french-open-loss/


Spot on, Dan!  However, it's not just working class children.....lower middle class children find it difficult when ma and pa can't fund their tennis.  It is an elitist sport, for sure.  The LTA narrow down their "catch" too early.  I've seen many talented children not go further because of the money.  Plus, some parents, along with their wealth, invest in their children on court very early, very hard, so they shine before those without the finance even have a chance to.  Something has to change. 


 Lower middle class- most people would call me solidly middle class and my earnings would place me there also; Id have no chance, zilch, of fundings my kids tennis career , zero. 



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Satellite level

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TW18 wrote:

Basically, if you haven't got plenty of money, your child won't get very far, sorry to say.  It's expensive to have a coach, let alone travel the world or the UK.  The LTA sponsor (for want of a better word) those select few but those select few have already been coached to death with ma and pa's money and therefore caught the eye of the LTA.  Your child may have bags of talent but if there isn't bags of money, there is a ceiling.  The LTA don't need to finance these select few.....their parents have money.  The only person I know of who needed the help once she lost her lovely Dad, was Ranah.  I don't know all players, of course, so may be wrong.


 Didn't realise Ranah's Dad had passed away, was he German?



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A few years back somebody quoted a minimum cost of about $30K to play ITF 15Ks on the cheap not including coaching etc. Juniors must be even more expensive as they tend to play in more expensive locations.

Given inflation at present I.ve no idea of the current cost.



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Strongbow wrote:

A few years back somebody quoted a minimum cost of about $30K to play ITF 15Ks on the cheap not including coaching etc. Juniors must be even more expensive as they tend to play in more expensive locations.

Given inflation at present I.ve no idea of the current cost.


 I think that's too high.

In the LTA's defence (and those aren't words you hear me say often), I think it is a fair bit better since the number of domestic junior ITF events (and Tennis Europe) has now gone up conisderably.

I remember 6-8 years ago, or so, there was barely a junior ITF event in the UK. It was a disgrace. Now there are quite a lot. And the juniors all play the Tour events too.

I don't see how you'd be spending more than £30k if NOT including coaching i.e. just for kit, rackets and travel. More like £5k, I'd say, basics. As per my other thread, just go to Edinburgh! Don't tell me you have to travel and it's expensive. 

The coaching is the big cost. I read that Emma was having about 20 hours a week when she was a teenager, paid for by the LTA. Which seemed about right, in terms of hours. That's not fundable privately unless you have a very big purse. Or unless you can do it in-house (as said before).

It's not all the LTA's fault either. The club strucutre in the UK doesn't allow it to happen like in Europe (maybe partly the LTA's fault too) AND the government doesn't subsidise it (as in Europe) which is not really the LTA's fault, although maybe they should bare this in mind.

i.e. in France, the local sports councils and the government subsidise the tennis clubs so they are accessible to all. Firstly, membership costs etc are heavily subisidised. And then, kids with parents on social security, say, get sports lesson tokens, to use in any sport club they like. So their basic tennis lessons are free.

And then the clubs structure themselves into 'elite' and 'normal', so to speak.

So that, at my French club (which is a normal club in a town of about 50k, which has several such clubs), a normal kid age 8 and above, who is part of the top-25 kids at the club, receives 4 hours of good coaching every week, during termtime, in a group of four, costing about £120 a year (which also includes his/her club membership i.e. can use the courts whenever they like) and FFT annual licence. Tennis-playing parents are quite involved too, especially for the younger ones.

The top 5, say, then also get extra FFT coaching, for free, at the federation's town HQ. Maybe 1.5 hours a week, one-to-one. As well as half-term holiday courses etc. All for free. The top 1 may get more. And any actual potential stars get syphoned off to the academies, which is a wholly different thing.

But it creates a big pyramid, which opens the door to all, including those on benefits.    



-- Edited by Coup Droit on Tuesday 30th of May 2023 07:33:00 AM

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It is the flights and accommodation that add up. For parent and child. £300 for flights for 2 minimum and then around £350 for hotels for a week, plus £50 entry. £700 a week excluding all the other add ons. Petrol, food etc
10- 12 overseas tournaments will be close to 10k.
Domestic tournaments are a bit cheaper,- no flights etc

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paulisi wrote:

It is the flights and accommodation that add up. For parent and child. £300 for flights for 2 minimum and then around £350 for hotels for a week, plus £50 entry. £700 a week excluding all the other add ons. Petrol, food etc
10- 12 overseas tournaments will be close to 10k.
Domestic tournaments are a bit cheaper,- no flights etc


 Yes, that's why it's such a gamechanger that there are now good UK tournaments

No one can really complain so much about the foreign travel now - there are a lot of ITFs here - just go play them

Also, I know some clubs organise groups. So one coach and one parent takes a group of 4 or 5, say. Which works out far better. 

Also, quite a few combine it with normal family holidays. So it's not quite the same calcuation. Family holiday to Portugal, with event thrown in, is not quite the same as tageted trip (not all families can afford to go to Portugal on holiday, I know, but it does widen the scope)



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Coup Droit wrote:
paulisi wrote:

It is the flights and accommodation that add up. For parent and child. £300 for flights for 2 minimum and then around £350 for hotels for a week, plus £50 entry. £700 a week excluding all the other add ons. Petrol, food etc
10- 12 overseas tournaments will be close to 10k.
Domestic tournaments are a bit cheaper,- no flights etc


 Yes, that's why it's such a gamechanger that there are now good UK tournaments

No one can really complain so much about the foreign travel now - there are a lot of ITFs here - just go play them

Also, I know some clubs organise groups. So one coach and one parent takes a group of 4 or 5, say. Which works out far better. 

Also, quite a few combine it with normal family holidays. So it's not quite the same calcuation. Family holiday to Portugal, with event thrown in, is not quite the same as tageted trip (not all families can afford to go to Portugal on holiday, I know, but it does widen the scope)


 Not sure its such a game changer.


Sadly weve seen first hand how having the finances (and time) to travel abroad  to pick up TE points massively influences the ability to gain entry into 14u /16u grade 1 and grade 2 events domestically. 

We are now seeing the same for ITF events. Yes there are some home events but the haves will still go to places like Moldova, Uganda, Turkey etc rather than the trickier home events. Yes you could argue its all for experience and variety but I think deep down we know its all about the points conveyor belt. I also think the LTA are patting themselves on the back as their chosen few gain the higher rankings but its a self fulfilling prophecy

 

So many parents are saying enough is enough and the children are moving into football and cricket, where there seems to be more support in place for a wider group Of players.



-- Edited by CaptainH on Wednesday 31st of May 2023 06:05:57 PM

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Lower Club Player

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CaptainH wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
paulisi wrote:

It is the flights and accommodation that add up. For parent and child. £300 for flights for 2 minimum and then around £350 for hotels for a week, plus £50 entry. £700 a week excluding all the other add ons. Petrol, food etc
10- 12 overseas tournaments will be close to 10k.
Domestic tournaments are a bit cheaper,- no flights etc


 Yes, that's why it's such a gamechanger that there are now good UK tournaments

No one can really complain so much about the foreign travel now - there are a lot of ITFs here - just go play them

Also, I know some clubs organise groups. So one coach and one parent takes a group of 4 or 5, say. Which works out far better. 

Also, quite a few combine it with normal family holidays. So it's not quite the same calcuation. Family holiday to Portugal, with event thrown in, is not quite the same as tageted trip (not all families can afford to go to Portugal on holiday, I know, but it does widen the scope)


 Not sure its such a game changer.


Sadly weve seen first hand how having the finances (and time) to travel abroad  to pick up TE points massively influences the ability to gain entry into 14u /16u grade 1 and grade 2 events domestically. 

We are now seeing the same for ITF events. Yes there are some home events but the haves will still go to places like Moldova, Uganda, Turkey etc rather than the trickier home events. Yes you could argue its all for experience and variety but I think deep down we know its all about the points conveyor belt. I also think the LTA are patting themselves on the back as their chosen few gain the higher rankings but its a self fulfilling prophecy

 

So many parents are saying enough is enough and the children are moving into football and cricket, where there seems to be more support in place for a wider group Of players.



-- Edited by CaptainH on Wednesday 31st of May 2023 06:05:57 PM


 In agreement with you, CaptainH.  Have seen quite a few really promising players go this way....finances won't permit them to go further.  It's the haves and the have-nots (money, not talent).  I saw one single mother have to pull her very talented child out because of finances and for that reason alone.  LTA didn't jump in to help.  Her child was a really great little player.



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KK


Club Coach

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What happens in the Czech Republic?  That is clearly working. 



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