Boys: Wimbledon 2018 - Grade A (Week 28)

The Knight · Challenger qualifying

Boys: Wimbledon 2018 - Grade A (Week 28)

The Knight · Challenger qualifying

Coup Droit wrote:

And, yes, today, for the commentators to say: "Jack's movement is weak/poor/a problem" without mentioning that he'd played 4.5 hours 48 hours ago, and to say "the question now is whether he has the mental rigour" or whatever their word was, when he'd come through SUCH a tough mental match in the semis, was just ridiculous, and unnecessary, and showed a lack of understanding.

Yep Jack's movement generally looks fine to me? Maybe nothing special but surely not a big weakness. And will surely improve as he matures and can train with greater intensity

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The Knight wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

And, yes, today, for the commentators to say: "Jack's movement is weak/poor/a problem" without mentioning that he'd played 4.5 hours 48 hours ago, and to say "the question now is whether he has the mental rigour" or whatever their word was, when he'd come through SUCH a tough mental match in the semis, was just ridiculous, and unnecessary, and showed a lack of understanding.
Yep Jack's movement generally looks fine to me? Maybe nothing special but surely not a big weakness. And will surely improve as he matures and can train with greater intensity

Yes, in fact, his movement is amazing good considering how much he's grown in the last year.

I'm not sure but I'd have said he was about 5ft 10 this time last year. And he's supposedly 6ft 2 now. Even if I'm out by an inch, he most certainly has had a huge growth spurt this year (which might just possibly have something to do with not playing too much).

Usually that's accompanied by a big growth in feet and shoe size too.

Any which way, I've known kids take a full 12 months to get their coordination and movement really back together after growing like that.

The other lad is 5 ft 9 and, not surprisingly, far more compact, balanced and nimble. But, yes, I agree, I think Jack's movement was very good for his size, and certainly given the change in size.

steven · Tennis legend

Luckily, I didn't have to listen to the commentators during the boys' final because I was on Court 1 watching it! In the front row, in fact (side opposite umpire closer to the end where the player boxes are and just behind the service line), Liz Curran having got very lucky with LTA returns last night and me being very lucky that she couldn't find anyone else to take up the second ticket at such short notice.

I was really impressed with Tseng, especially at the start - ice cool, very accurate, drilled everything really low over the net. He was relatively short but played like someone a few inches taller and had very natural body mechanics ('like Federer' would be a massive exaggeration, but at least a little bit like Roger) - you could see why he was junior no. 1 and, despite being only 16 and playing only part-time on the pro circuit, ATP WR 601. At one point, with Jack making error after error (probably because he's never played anyone who'd put that much on the ball before), it looked like the match was going to be very short.

Indeed, given how much Jack's epic semi-final must have taken out of him, it would have been almost understandable if his head had gone down after the 1st set (in which case, double bakery would have beckoned) but in fact, the complete opposite happened. He took it point by point, remained aggressive and never gave up. That, for me, was the most positive thing to come out of the match since it's probably the hardest thing to teach. He broke in the 2nd set, got broken back, still didn't give up and won the 2nd set tiebreak in very fine style - 7 points in a row from 0-2, I think.

The inevitable tiredness did start to creep in during the 3rd set (especially after he had had break points saved by Tseng and then been broken himself) but even then, Jack managed to break back, only for Tseng to up his game when it mattered most. The 2nd serve ace the Taiwanese player served on match point was astonishing, as I'm, sure many of you saw, and he was celebrating it almost as soon as it had left his racket.

While being a long, long way from the finished article, Jack seemed to have a very good forehand and an excellent 1st serve. He was fun to watch too (I think he might have been to the Oli Golding school of frequent celebration ) and the crowd really got behind him, far more than it appeared on the TV replay I saw after I got back, and right from the start of the match as well.

I was quite surprised to find out that Tseng isn't a big deal in Taiwan (yet) - my Taiwanese friend says "It's sad that the media in Taiwan doesn't care about it (i.e. his run to the RG and Wimbledon titles) very much" - though I'm not sure how much was made of Andy and Heather winning junior US Opens, certainly much less than was made of Laura winning junior Wimbledon.

Julia Carrot · All-time great

So glad you got to be there Steven. It was a terrific match on stream, so courtside must have been a treat. I'm going to join British Tennis so I can apply for these return tickets myself next year I think.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Great to hear your report, steven.

Maybe the Taiwanese authorities/media are doing young Tseng a favour, especially when one reads about all the stress and expectation put upon the Thai girl, who won Junior Wimbly, Noppawan Lertcheewakarn, and who has now jacked it all in to be a police officer .....

But it sounds like a cracking match, that the right guy won, and the crowd thoroughly enjoyed. Which is lovely.

That said, and just my view, and maybe still influenced by seeing him at Roehampton when he obviously wasn't fully fut, but I don't think Tseng is destined for a glittering adult career.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

Oakland2002 wrote:
Helen40 wrote:
I was wondering at the difference between the jump from boys to mens and girls to womens.

Bear with me as I haven't got all the information for my ponderings, hence my musings. I was thinking that both Jack and Emma got QWCs into the seniors. Emma had a tight three setter, losing to someone who then beat two players ranked around 150 to got to the MD, and Jack got beaten quite straightforwardly by someone ranked around 170, and lost to someone ranked around 120 in the next round. Emma went out to someone ranked 500+(seniors) in the girls comp and the semi finalists were all top 500, and now it's reported that Emma wants to go pro at 15. I'm not sure of the seniors ranking of the semis boys. Please can someone help me make sense of this.
There are only two boys not yet 18 in the world top 500 ATP not yet 18 by age, most boys focus on juniors until they turn 17 (and o lay then if they are very good) start a steady journey through futures. In terms of physical maturation they will continue to develop in terms of strength well into their early twenties.
The girls are generally physically much more mature so an equivalent switch at 15 would not be unusual for girls destined right for the top. Emma has improved incrementally in all her 15Ks so far winning her last and took Harriet to three sets at Ikley. Some may disagree but I it is about the right time for her to test herself more often in senior tennis.

Ah, thanks Oakland, this makes sense as the men's game does seem to be more physical than the women's, and of course they need to be able to last five sets. It's a shame it isn't a level playing field, but it is exiting that someone like Emma has already won a $15k.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

steven wrote:
I was quite surprised to find out that Tseng isn't a big deal in Taiwan (yet) - my Taiwanese friend says "It's sad that the media in Taiwan doesn't care about it (i.e. his run to the RG and Wimbledon titles) very much" - though I'm not sure how much was made of Andy and Heather winning junior US Opens, certainly much less than was made of Laura winning junior Wimbledon.

I hadn't realised that Hev and Andy had won USO juniors, although it does sound familiar for Andy. I think there was more focus on Laura as she was here and so young.

It's probably a good thing for Tseng that he can just get on with his tennis, I'm not convinced that the amount of attention Laura got was beneficial to her. Of course, I have no idea of Taiwanese culture, or what Tseng is like.

steven · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Great to hear your report, steven.

Maybe the Taiwanese authorities/media are doing young Tseng a favour, especially when one reads about all the stress and expectation put upon the Thai girl, who won Junior Wimbly, Noppawan Lertcheewakarn, and who has now jacked it all in to be a police officer .....

But it sounds like a cracking match, that the right guy won, and the crowd thoroughly enjoyed. Which is lovely.

That said, and just my view, and maybe still influenced by seeing him at Roehampton when he obviously wasn't fully fut, but I don't think Tseng is destined for a glittering adult career.

Interesting. Of course, there's an argument that Tseng may already be virtually the finished product (I don't know), whereas Jack has bigger weapons but (and this can, of course, be a good 'but' with juniors) much, much more to work on, so could even have more potential overall. Tseng's height may hold him back a bit too (I'd estimate that he's a couple of inches shorter than Fed) but his focus and the fluidity of his movement was very impressive.

Jan · Hall of fame

Thanks for your live reporting Steven. I managed to catch most of the match, watching it in preference to the men's final until it finished. Draper certainly seems one to watch!

indiana · Tennis legend

Thanks for the report, Steven, and interesting CD that Jack has grown so much. For I was indeed thinking that he was much taller than I somehow imagined.

If he is beginning to truly grow into his body the future looks even better.

steven · Tennis legend

Helen40 wrote:
steven wrote:
I was quite surprised to find out that Tseng isn't a big deal in Taiwan (yet) - my Taiwanese friend says "It's sad that the media in Taiwan doesn't care about it (i.e. his run to the RG and Wimbledon titles) very much" - though I'm not sure how much was made of Andy and Heather winning junior US Opens, certainly much less than was made of Laura winning junior Wimbledon.
I hadn't realised that Hev and Andy had won USO juniors, although it does sound familiar for Andy. I think there was more focus on Laura as she was here and so young.
It's probably a good thing for Tseng that he can just get on with his tennis, I'm not convinced that the amount of attention Laura got was beneficial to her. Of course, I have no idea of Taiwanese culture, or what Tseng is like.

You made me check there LOL but yes, Hev definitely did win US Open juniors in 2009, the year after Laura won junior Wimbledon, beating Yana Buchina in the final - the British media hardly noticed because they were still in "we've got to put all our money on one British player" mode ... and it wasn't Wimbledon.

Here's Tseng's post-final presser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9YG_VM1yLA - that's one deep voice! He says he'll play the junior US Open and the Youth Olympics then concentrate on the pro tour - so Jack might not have to deal with him at junior Wimbledon next year.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

I was listening on the Wimbledon live feed and had a chap called Rupert commentating along with Lucie Ahl both spoke a lot of sense. I don't think you can comment too much on Jack's movement from today's match purely became of the enormous amount of tennis he had to play to get the final compared to his opponent. In qualifying he played an opponent who hit the ball harder and more accurately and Jack's capacity to chase it down a real strength. To put on such a good performance today is also encouraging after such a test of stamina in the third.

Very pleased to see he will be at least 6ft 2, 6ft 3 I feel is the perfect height in terms of the balance between the advantages of height and the disadvantage of reduced mobility. He also looks very flexible which I think is a quality we over look in players, just looking at the one of the slides Novak got into when playing Rafa yesterday he was almost in the splits.

Great week for Jack but I also feel George is at a similar level, both I feel are good candidates to go pro right off the bat, Anton I feel would have suited College tennis taking the Cam route but I don't think that is still an option for him or Aidan now, Anton has I got his clothing deal and Aidan being signed up with Andy.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Monday 16th of July 2018 04:03:24 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, my feeling is that George is an even better prospect than Jack, although the difference is slim and their tennis is reasonably different and it's never easy to know which issues will sort themselves out and which will drag on.
Anton has an impressive physique, especially for a junior, but that becomes less of an attribute in adults as the others catch up. His tennis isn't firmly in place, though. Like you, college would have seemed the right route - he's obviously academic - I wonder if UK uni is in his plans? Or it's just the pro-road or the low-road?
Will also be very interesting to see how the other 2001-ers, like Harry W and James Story and Blu and Jacob Fearnley and Maggs, etc., develop - you'd expect at least one to jump up out of mix.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

In answer to my question about why Roger Draper was not at the final, maybe this from Kieran Gill for the Mail is relevant:

"Draper plans to transition into the professional game over the next year. His father, former Lawn Tennis Association chief executive Roger Draper, was not at the most important match of his son's life so far. It is believed their relationship is strained with his parents now divorced."