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Post Info TOPIC: US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)
Oakland2002


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US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)
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I don't think you can read too much into this data, it is skewed in many ways. Data is missing, their is potential for type II errors as it is a snapshot of performance over a shorter period of activity and only then of course can you then interpret it in context i.e. bring in qualitative analysis. So one is limited by the garbage in garbage out concept and then left to try and contextualise the garbage without confidence intervals of course you get more detail about the garbage if you pay for it.

This is why reviewers of science journals particularly when a major claim is being made want to see the raw data and first understand what is being analysed and how. The appropriateness of the statistical test chosen to analyze it etc....

At the most basic level; here you are comparing completely different populations performing the same activity but for different reasons and then trying to contextulise small sub populations of observations. I understand the comparing of male and female scores was an off the cuff remark but the Universal tennis intersex constant would have to be a reality before you could even try to compare the two populations at the most fundamental level.

Similarly Professional tennis and college tennis are different beasts, indeed the desired outcomes can be very different between a singles match as part of a tournament where the primary desired outcome is winning the match to win money and comparing it with a result which is essentially a secondary outcome which is winning a match that is part of a match between two colleges, the later being the primary outcome.

What we do have with the professional tennis ranking system where there is only minor contamination of singles play for money with team tennis (Davis cup points) is a population measured for the most part against a defined primary outcome, we do however have a system skewed by three different sub populations which intermingle i.e. The futures, challenger and main tour tournaments. Understanding that, which we all do some of the time allows one to contextulise the importance of a win or loss to another player in terms of its broader value ie Andy loosing to a player ranked outside the top 20 in the warm up ATP 250/500 to the US open is in context a statistical irrelevance and non counter that merely feeds frenzy and discussion on our bulletin board, but would matter in a simple analysis of head to head performance.

I real enjoy our understanding of and discussions around the pro tour rankings which is relatively sophisticated and only rewards appropriate transition between the three subpopulations described. Similarly although the international junior tennis ranking system has its weaknesses (and I accept CDs points about countries with strong domestic competitions that allow an alternative path for junior progression eg France) but it allows UK juniors with aspirations of professional tennis again to transition from their age group subpopulations utilising for the most part a competency based metric that facilitates access to the next level.

Abuse or manipulation (or not) of that metric as we have discussed at length in the Jay Clarke strand gets found out fairly promptly at the next level.

For all these reason I understand the reluctance of the LTA to engage with Universal Tennis in their ranking system as what is in existence already given the primary agenda of the LTA around the professional gamec superior and fit for purpose.



-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Sunday 20th of December 2015 07:31:40 AM

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Kenneth


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Maybe it's me but the relevance to this thread is that the Universal ranking thing at least gives US coaches an idea as the UK ratings are now pointless since the LTA messed it up and the rankings are not much better mainly due to too few events counting towards someone ranking (best 6 events in a 12 month period). Current rankings in UK do not show how tough the event was, Scottish kids often (not always) got higher than their real level for example as they had events when English kids were at school and were then weak and won by weak players quite often, etc. Now someone can win a weak ladies event and get more points than say a grade 2 u16 event, hence why nobody is entering them. US coaches need an indicator, they then can clearly see if a kid can play, what their potential is and if they are a good COACH, not a lazy one who just say looks at a high ITF ranking which is largely meaningless unless top 100, as most others are mainly those who can afford to/mad enough to travel all over Europe/the world gathering points. That coach then thinks They can develop this player so not really that fussed by a mid-range ITF ranking, more the potential this kid has. Many juniors who had a high ITF ranking did that in their earlier teens and their current standard often belies their previous ranking. So whilst Universal not perfect it is for many an excellent indicator

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indiana


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Thanks Kenneth for that additional information.

As you say the Universal ratings are not perfect, part of my objection to the "100% reliable" phraseology even if they had full data on all, but then I defy anyone to find a perfect system. They appear to me a pretty useful tool ( whatever one thinks of motivations ) with the very far from perfect ( for gauging relative abilities ) ranking systems.

From their roots and aims to rate potential US college entrants no surprise that their data is much more US based, but they are trying to expand that and the more help other countries tennis authorities can give them the better and the more it will be fully reflective. For now it will help give college coaches a good reference for these who are "in" and I am sure they are capable of understanding if and why many foreign applicants are "out" and judge them on all the other normal criteria they would use. It seems to being implied before that players not being on the ratings will not be considered. I can't imagine that from any college, who still wants the best.



-- Edited by indiana on Monday 21st of December 2015 02:16:35 PM

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BradMarx90


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Looks like Cameron Norrie just missed out on a MD WC to the ASB Classic in Auckland later this month. Shame...

www.stuff.co.nz/sport/tennis/75500173/aucklands-michael-venus-wins-2015-te-anau-invitational-tennis-tournament.html

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Mark from Yorkshire
The Optimist


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The new college rankings have just been released ready for the spring term.  These are based on college matches played during the autumn when, of course, some of the better players try their hand at 10K events instead

No British women feature in the national singles rankings although the following have made the doubles ranking

Daneikia Borthwick - Florida State

Jennifer Brown - Mississippi State

Sophie Watts - Fresno

Anneka Watts - Fresno

The men have done rather better with the following being ranked in singles

4 - Cameron Norrie - TCU

33 - Alex Sendegeya - Texas Tech

34 - Jordan Angus - San Diego

68 - Julian Cash - Oklahoma State

87 - Andrew Watson - Memphis

107 - Max Andrews - Miami Fl

111 - Sebastian Rey - Tulane

In the doubles there is 

Jack Findel-Hawkins - N Florida

Jordan Angus - San Diego

Julian Cash - Oklahoma State

Alex Gasson - Denver

The regional rankings have also been released and a few Brits show up

Women

Carolina Region - Brigit Folland - South Carolina (doubles)

Northwest Region - Sophie and Anneka Watts - Fresno (doubles)

Southeast Region - Daneika Borthwick - Florida State (doubles)

Southern Region - Jennifer Brown - Mississippi State (doubles)

Texas Region - Sabrina Federici - Texas Tech

Men

Central Region - Julian Cash - Oklahoma State (singles and doubles);  Ben Lott - Drake

Mountain Region - Dan Little - Utah;  David Fox - Denver;  Alex Gasson - Denver (doubles)

Northeast Region - Tom Colautti - Princeton

Ohio Valley Region - Andrew Watson - Memphis;  Ryan Penniston - Memphis (singles and doubles)

Southeast Region - Max Andrews - Miami (singles and doubles);  Jack Findel-Hawkins (doubles)

Southern Region- Sebastian Rey - Tulane

Southwest Region - Jordan Angus - San Diego

Texas Region - Cameron Norrie - TCU;  Alex Sendegeya - Texas Tech (singles and doubles);  Sam Butler - SMU;  Tommy Bennett - Rice (doubles)

 

 



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UniversalTennis


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We like the US College Tennis coverage starting to happen here...

Men: britennis.com/players/mens-college/

Women: britennis.com/players/womens-college/

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UniversalTennis


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FYI... Brits to Watch at US College in 2016

britennis.com/2016/01/07/us-college-tennis-britsteams-to-watch/

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The Optimist


ATP qualifying

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Added 3 January starters to the list on P1 - Luke P, Kurt B and Lucy H



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The Optimist


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The ITA Kickoff Weekend is underway.  This event involves the top 3 teams in each region (36 teams) and the next highest nationally ranked teams not meeting that criteria to make a total of 60 teams.  They play in 15 boxes of 4 and the winner of each box goes through to the National Indoor Team Championships in February (plus the championship host school - Wisconsin for the women, Virginia for the men).  The boxes are named after the host school.  Results are starting to come in and a few Brits are representing their universities.

Men

USC box

#111 Sebastian Rey Tulane (ATP UNR CH 1545) bt Gabriel Sidney (ATP UNR) 6-1, 6-2 - played at psn 4

Illinois Box

Fedor Baev, Northwestern (ATP UNR JCH 299)  bt Matthew Kirby, Tulsa (ATP UNR JCH 377) 7-6, 3-6, 6-2 - played at 4

Women

Duke Box

#13 Jasmine Lee, Mississippi State (WTA UNR CH 454) bt Daneika Borthwick, Florida State (WTA UNR CH 820) 7-5, 6-1 - played at 1

Lana Rush, Florida State (WTA UNR JCH 104 led Jennifer Brown, Mississippi State (WTA UNR JCH 1414) 6-3, 2-6, 2-0 susp - played at psn 6

UCLA Box

Sophie Watts, Fresno (WTA UNR CH953) bt Ana Oparenovic, Arkansas (WTA UNR CH 1109) 6-4, 6-3 - played at 2

Sasha Shkorupeieva, Arkansas (WTA UNR) led Emma Wilson, Fresno (WTA UNR JCH 1381) 1-6, 6-4, 3-1 susp - played at 5

Anneka Watts, Fresno (WTA UNR JCH 921) bt Agne Cepelyte, Arkansas (WTA UNR JCH 343) 7-5, 6-3 - played at 6

 

 



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The Optimist


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More Kickoff Weekend results

Southern California Box

#60 Logan Smith, Southern California (ATP1894 CH 1872) bt #111 Sebastian Rey, Tulane (ATP UNR, CH 1545) 6-3, 6-4 - played at pen 4

Duke Box

#34 Jordan Angus, San Diego (ATP UNR JCH 74) bt Rhys Johnson, Vanderbilt (ATP UNR CH 1127) 6-1, 7-6(3) - played at 2

Josh Page, San Diego (ATP UNR, JCH 123) by Ryan Smith, Vanderbilt (ATP UNR CH 1436) 6-2, 7-5 - played at 6

Ohio State Box

David Fox, Denver (ATP UNR, JCH 229) bt Andrew Schafer, South Carolina (ATP UNR CH 1701) 6-3, 6-4 - played at 3

Alex Gasson, Denver (ATP UNR JCH 968) bt Sam Swank, South Carolina (ATP UNR JCH 1548) 6-3, 6-2 - played at 5

Georgia Box

#87 Andrew Watson, Memphis (ATP 1603, CH 1247) bt #108 Alex Gornet, Louisville (ATP UNR JCH 1105) 6-3, 6-2 - played at 1

Ryan Penniston, Memphis (ATP 1632 CH 1607) bt Carlos Longhi-Neto, Louisville (ATP UNR CH 1401) 6-2, 6-1 - played at 2

Shakheel Manji, Memphis (ATP UNR JCH 297) led Christian Haushammer, Louisville (ATP UNR JCH 780) 6-3, 2-1 susp

North Carolina Box

Simon Norienus, North Carolina State (ATP UNR) bt Ben Lott, Drake (ATP UNR CH 1614) 6-3, 4-6, 7-6(5) - played at 1

Vinny Gillespie, Drake (ATP UNR JCH 613) bt Ivan Savlijic (ATP UNR) 6-2, 7-6(1) - played at 3

Thomas Wiegal, North Carolina State (ATP UNR) bt Calum MacGeoch, Drake (ATP UNR JCH 507) 6-4, 6-3 - played at 4

Shoti Meparidze, North Carolina State (ATP UNR JCH 89) bt Ben Stride, Drake (ATP UNR CH 1702) 7-5, 6-4 - played at 5

Texas Box

Filip Kraljevic, Mississippi (ATP UNR CH 1206) led Alex Sendegeya, Texas Tech (ATP UNR CH 1392) 6-7(2), 5-3 susp - played at 3

TCU Box

#68 Julian Cash, Oklahoma State (ATP 1894 CH 1227) bt Sebastian Beltrame, Harvard (ATP UNR CH 1581) 7-5, 6-1 - played at 3

#4 Cameron Norrie, TCU (ATP 674 CH 637) led #53 Freddy Gelbrich, San Diego State (ATP UNR 6-2, 3-3 - played at 1

Cole Fiegel, Georgia Tech (ATP UNR) led Ricky Hernandez-Tong, New Mexico (ATP UNR JCH 556) 6-3, 3-4 susp - played at 6

 



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The Optimist


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And a few more men's results

UCLA Box

Karve Sell, UCLA (ATP UNR CH 1243) bt Samm Butler, Southern Methodist (ATP 1662 CH 1318) 6-4, 6-3 - played at 3

Texas A&M Box

#5 Arthur Rinderknech, Texas A&M (ATP 1894 CH 1786) led Euan McIntosh, Fresno (ATP UNR JCH 1166) 6-2, 4-4 susp - played at psn 1

Jordi Arconada, Boise (ATP 2081 CH 1243) bt Youssef Hassan, Fresno (ATP UNR JCH 196) 6-2, 6-1 - played at 3

Toby Mitchell, Boise (ATP UNR JCH 194) bt Nils Skajaa, San Fransisco (ATP UNR) 6-1, 6-3 - played at 1

Tynan Maguire, San Fransisco (ATP UNR bt Lewis Roskilly, Boise (ATP UNR JCH 133) 6-0, 5-7, 6-2 - played at 5

 

The reason I am putting in so much detail about junior career highs, professional rankings and where players are in the line up is so that those with kids thinking of this route can see how players they may know fit in to college tennis and thus get an idea of standard.



-- Edited by The Optimist on Wednesday 27th of January 2016 06:01:52 PM

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UniversalTennis


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The Optimist wrote:

The reason I am putting in so much detail about junior career highs, professional rankings and where players are in the line up is so that those with kids thinking of this route can see how players they may know fit in to college tennis and thus get an idea of standard.

 

Alternately, you could list the Universal Tennis Rating (UTR) which includes results from ATP/WTA, ITF (including the junior circuit), U.S. college, and top LTA junior tournaments, as well as junior results from other tennis federations. 



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The Optimist


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Never got round to posting the rest of the Kickoff results - life overtook me....

Here's some of the girls matches and I'll pop the rest up later

Duke Box

Lucia Butkovska, Portland (WTA UNR CH 652) led Daneika Borthwick, Florida State (WTA UNR CH 820) 6-4, 2-6, 0-1 susp - played at psn 1

Jelena Lazarevic, Portland (WTA UNR CH 1016) led Lana Rush, Florida State (WTA UNR JCH 104)7-6(4), 5-3 susp - played at 5

Jessica Ho, Duke (WTA 950 CH 802) bt Jennifer Brown, Mississippi State (WTA UNR JCH 1414) 6-2, 6-1 - played at 6

UCLA Box

Kyle McPhillips, UCLA (WTA UNR CH 706) bt Sophie Watts, Fresno (WTA UNR CH 953) 7-5, 6-4 - played at 2

Maia Magill, UCLA (WTA UNR CH 1202) bt Emma Wilson, Fresno (WTA UNR JCH 1381) 6-3, 3-6, 6-1 - played at 5

Anneka Watts, Fresno (WTA UNR JCH 921) bt Laura Luca, UCLA (WTA UNR JCH 1916) 6-1, 6-3 - played at 6

Miami Box

Alannah Griffin, Auburn (WTA UNR JCH 271) bt Emily Metcalf, Michigan (WTA UNR) 6-3, 7-6(3) - played at 4

Texas Tech Box

Sabrina Federici, Texas Tech (WTA UNR JCH 503) bt Christi Woodson, Oregon (WTA UNR) 6-2, 6-3 - played at 5

Oklahoma State Box

Ebony Panoho, Arizona State (WTA UNR CH 957) bt Alicia Barnett, Northwestern (WTA UNR CH 1042) 6-3, 6-3 - played at 3

 



-- Edited by The Optimist on Thursday 28th of January 2016 12:16:02 PM

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The Optimist


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The final men's results

Duke Box

#102 TJ Pura, Duke (ATP UNR JCH 710) led #34 Jordan Angus, San Diego 3-6, 6-2, 4-3 susp - played at pen 2

Josh Page, San Diego (ATP UNR JCH 123) bt Josh Levine, Duke (ATP UNR) 6-4, 3-6, 6-3 - played at 6

North Carolina Box

#27 Sam Monette, Indianna (ATP 1780 CH 1259) bt Ben Lott, Drake (ATP UNR CH 1614) 6-3, 7-6(4) - played at 1

Vinny Gillespie, Drake (ATP UNR JCH 613) bt Raheel Manji, Indianna (ATP UNR CH 1828) 6-4, 4-6, 6-4 - played at 3

Calum MacGeoch, Drake (ATP UNR JCH 507) v Antonio Cembellin, Indianna (ATP 2081 CH 1073) 7-5, 3-6 susp - played at 4

Tom Hands, Drake bt Elliot Yee, Indianna (ATP UNR) 6-4, 6-2 - played at 6

Ohio State Box

Ralf Steinbach, Ohio State (ATP UNR CH 1106) by Alex Gasson, Denver (ATP UNR JCH 968) 6-2, 7-5 - played at 5

UCLA Box

Samm Butler, SMU (ATP 1662 CH 1318) led Jorge Escutia, New Mexico (ATP UNR JCH 409) 5-7, 6-2, 2-1 susp - played at 3

Ricky Hernandez-Tong, New Mexico led Arkadijs Slobodkins, SMU (ATP UNR CH 1537) 7-6, 5-6 susp - played at 5

Texas Box

#91 Alfredo Perez-Blanco, Florida (ATP UNR) bt #33 Alex Sendegeya, Texas Tech (ATP UNR CH 1392) 6-3, 6-0 - played at 3

TCU Box

#4 Cameron Norrie, TCU (ATP 674 CH 637) bt Temur Ismailov, Oklahoma State (ATP 449 CH 419) 6-1, 6-2 - played at 1

#68 Julian Cash, Oklahoma State (ATP 1894 CH 1277) bt #24 Guillermo Nunez, TCU (ATP 1430 CH 674) 7-6(4), 6-7(4), 6-4 - played at 3

Texas A&M Box

#5 Arthur Rinderknech (ATP 1894 CH 1786) bt Toby Mitchell, Boise (ATP UNR JCH 194) 6-3, 6-3 - played at 1

AJ Catanzariti, Texas A&M (ATP 1632 CH 1548) led Lewis Roskilly, Boise 7-6(1), 2-2 susp - played at 5

Georgia Box

#28 Austin Smith, Georgia (ATP UNR CH 1154) bt Andrew Watson, Memphis (ATP 1603 CH 1247) 5-7, 7-6(4), 7-5 - played at 1

Ryan Peniston, Memphis (ATP 1632 CH 1607) bt #20 Wayne Montgomery, Georgia (ATP UNR CH 971) 6-4, 7-6(10) - played at 2

Shakheel Manji, Memphis (ATP UNR JCH 297) led Ben Wagland, Georgia (ATP UNR CH 1056) 4-2 susp - played at 6



-- Edited by The Optimist on Thursday 28th of January 2016 07:03:21 AM

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paulisi


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I'm interested to understand why matches aren't completed. Is it to do with the status of the overall match?

I also looked at player positions on teams. Is this based on college rankings and how often do they change? I'm surprised that Andrew Watson is down at 5, when he is one of our better prospects.

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