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Post Info TOPIC: US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)


ATP qualifying

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RE: US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)


Oakland, Universal Tennis Ratings is not a placement agency nor something you can register with (although you can subscribe to it to see more than very basic free information on players).  It is a data collection and number crunching outfit only.  

It takes feeds with the results from all professional matches, all ITF junior matches, all ITA college matches, and the bulk of US and Canadian junior matches.  Sarah Borwell also provides feeds from British Tour events in which her clients have played.  (Not sure if Pippa does this.)  Every player they have a result for is allocated a UTR ranking.  These range between 1 and 16 down to 2 decimal places (16 being high, 1 being low).  The initial ranking is allocated according to the UTR of the player they beat or lost to and how easily they won or lost.  This is refined with each result, taking into account a max of 30 matches as long as they fall within a 12 month period.  If less than 30 matches have been taken into account they give that player's UTR a less than 100% reliabilty rating.

Coaches like it because it purports to show current form and because it shows up those potential recruits who have a high ranking in one system or another but who have achieved it by chasing easy points against weak opponents.

The bulk of British girls going to Div 1 tend to have a UTR around 9-10.  Those going to the strong conferences tend to be a high 9-11.  The boys' equivalent is about one level higher.



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Improver

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The Optimist, you are correct. Universal Tennis is not a college recruitment or placement agency.

Although our rating calculations use results from a player's most recent 30 matches which were played within the past 12 months, it is possible to achieve a 100% reliability with a rating should the results be against other players whom have a UTR with 100% reliability. 

Even though the UTR is a standard used during the U.S. college recruiting process, the rating does impact many more players where tournament hosts use the UTR to facilitate level-based tournaments. An example of level-based play was recently the subject of a Sports Illustrated article which can be found at http://www.si.com/tennis/2015/10/06/universal-tennis-rating-boston-open



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Lower Club Player

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Yes seen this before, it's useful but have it's limitations. Results from Autumn/the fall, are not on yet and from what I have just seen British tour results from the summer not there either. Junior nationals are and some itf/grade 2s are there though. It does give a rough guide, probably gives more in the pay for version!

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Tennis legend

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Out of interest, related to discussion in the golf handicap thread, how much in the UTR ratings is based on how easily matches are won and lost? ( assuming it is possible to give at least a rough sense of this ). I see that the The Optimist does say "how easily" is a factor.

Essentially to me, tennis is about winning and losing, and I'd be very much more interested in a player's win / loss record and certainly in a ratings system the rating of who they win and lose to. Win narrowly, you still won, lose narrowly, you still lost.

The big thing though is you want winners and if sometimes they seem to scorewise rather grind out victories this I would hope is a comparatively little issue.



-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 04:27:08 PM

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Improver

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Hello Kenneth, at this time it is the LTA that decides which of their event results get submitted to Universal Tennis. British juniors playing LTA events what wish added UTR credit should make their requests directly to the LTA.



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Improver

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Hello indiana, you will be able to find an explanation of UTR match competitiveness at www.universaltennis.com/aboutus.aspx with further explanations in our FAQ section. We hope this helps.



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ATP qualifying

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The results from the feeds they take are usually on within a few days.  They don't officially take a feed from the LTA, it's just the tournaments that Sarah B selectively gives them in relation to her client.  It's not really useful to coaches looking at British recruits unless they are playing predominantly on the ITF/professional circuit.  However, if your daughter looked up the UTR of a British player she knows who is already at US uni, then she could use that for comparison purposes when trying to work out where she would fit in any teams she in which she is interested.

Personally, I quite like the system as something running alongside other traditional ranking systems, although you do need to be predominantly playing in a system which feeds in regular results.  It's quite a good benchmark for a player to see how they are progressing results-wise, particularly if they're going through a period of playing well in strong draws but not getting the wins for example.  

My main gripes with it are that it is still largely N American based and that, like all American enterprises, you have to pay a subscription if you want to see any meaningful data. Although it claims to be a free service, a player can't even see their own UTR to a decimal place.

Edit: See Universal Tennis' post above as to how they get occasional British domestic results.



-- Edited by The Optimist on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 04:34:47 PM

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Tennis legend

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UniversalTennis wrote:

Hello indiana, you will be able to find an explanation of UTR match competitiveness at www.universaltennis.com/aboutus.aspx with further explanations in our FAQ section. We hope this helps.


 Thank you.



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Improver

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The Optimist wrote ... They don't officially take a feed from the LTA...

Universal Tennis does get direct results from the LTA. However, the process is not automated, which results in delays in our ability to calculate UTRs for British players. 

See event log posted at https://goo.gl/VRBw2d ...where tournament results are noted "Submitted by LTA".

Although it claims to be a free service, a player can't even see their own UTR to a decimal place.

Yes, you are correct that our free UTR Basic service is limited in functionality. However, with the free service, juniors are still able to use the UTR system to locate their competitive fit with U.S. college tennis teams. The following post should help explain how this is done: Using UTRs to find your college tennis fit https://goo.gl/ENi9HU

Please note that many of our customers have been able to use our services to help secure scholarships worth in the range of $40,000 to $240,000+ for a 4 year period. Our modest fee ($8.95/month) for the UTR Premium Plus subscription helps speed up the process of finding appropriate level college teams. If anyone here is curious as to how the UTR Premium+ subscription works, you are invited to take the system for a free 45 day test drive. Additional details can be found at https://goo.gl/K3Pxie  The trial request password will expire December 31, 2015.



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All-time great

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Just to clarify I don't think at any point suggested Universal tennis was a recruitment agency.

I was merely interested in the data they collected and whether it was used in anyway to facilitate the diversity of those playing tennis as their customers are able to secure such lucrative scholarships. There was a kind offer to answer questions and to be fair it is a discussion forum, disappointingly the questions remain unanswered, although I now have an intimate understanding of the product.

I see little or no difference between the most recent post and those high quality posts recommending finely crafted fitted kitchens.

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Tennis legend

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Previously knowing nothing about Universal Tennis and their ratings I have found their initial contribution here and such conversation as have been spawned off it very interesting.

Whatever motives they may have included in this, they appear to be pretty well regarded and thought off, so why not make folk more aware of themselves on a tennis forum including to a tennis father who was asking questions. Subscribing to their services is up to the individual, but on a tennis forum all rather more relevant than kitchen posts 

Clearly ( well hopefully ! ) their ratings themselves make no diversity adjustments, that is for others to factor into their decision making. How much they themselves use any data to facilate diversity and / or follow up diversity recruitment based on part on their data I of course leave to them to reply as they wish. What responsibility they bear is debatable.



-- Edited by indiana on Thursday 10th of December 2015 12:29:04 AM

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Improver

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Hello Oakland2002, you asked... "Are there any mechanisms in place to insure the recruitment of players to college tennis programs represents the ethnic and socioeconomic mix of the sports programmes that generate the scholarship income that pays for tennis scholars ie American football and basketball. How do they compare at the moment? would you consider playing a role in this?" 

We are sorry, but we do not have access to this information related to college recruitment. However, we do extensive work promoting level-based play (which uses our UTR system) to promote inclusion of ethnic and social diverse participants within local communities. 

"When clients register with you do you monitor ethnic diversity..."

No. Subscribers to our website are not required to provide such information.

 

"...and as a formal partner of the USTA..."

We are not a formal partner of the USTA. Although, the USTA does use our ratings for some of their tournament draw seeding and selections. We do work closely with several of the USTA sections on a variety of initiatives, some of which may impact their diversity and inclusion programming.

"...particularly the small schools where the standard is slightly lower to facilitate culture diversity?"

We are not directly involved in the college recruitment process. However, our ratings are used by community groups, to facilitate local level based play to culturally diverse groups.

"Do you record and publish outcomes for the players you facilitate the recruitment of ie final academic performance (graduation rate and quality of degree) and improvement in player performance rating from Freshman to graduation? This would allow a ranking of added value." 

We do not have access to academic performance. However, this information is often shared by the individual educational institutes. 

 

 



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All-time great

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Thank you for taking the time to answer the questions I have asked, they were asked for a reason and with a view to raising awareness of a number of points. I welcome participation by any person, organisation or Ltd company who wants to post and participate in tennis related debate.

To reassure Indy I do not in anyway hold Universal Tennis responsible for the inequalities in college tennis recruitment in the U.S. However their data collection may be part of the problem. I agree the data they collect is upto them but that is a merely a happy geographical accident.

My understanding is they are a company that collects your data and sells it back to you, indeed the freedom of information act in the UK would mean that if trading in the UK there would be a strong case for having to give you your data; if you asked for it.

This is a British Tennis website. The UK is the only European country to mandate collection of such data and my aim was only to stress the importance of the concept "if you are not counted you don't count"

The lack of any depth in quality of US men's tennis in a country of 300 million with some of the worlds best tennis resources and conditions does however suggest that the recruitment process that revolves around copious data collection is flawed.

There are a number of ways addressing equity of access, however virtually all change management strategies involve an initial phase of data collection. The choice of data one collects reflects the attitudes and priorities of those collecting the data, there was an offer to test drive the Universal Tennis product before any of the questions posted where answered, and we were invited to ask questions.

I feel they are important questions given the overt difference in socioeconomic and ethnic diversity between the big time money making (for the college, not the athlete) college sports where enormous efforts are made to recruit the best athletes independent of race or any socioeconomic/intellectual impediment that may act as barriers to attending a U.S. college.

I would argue that if the will is there, there is an opportunity for Universal tennis to positively impact equitable college tennis recruitment and improve the strength and depth of US college tennis. The colleges will recruit the best athletes. It is a question of facilitating finding them and if a UK based company, universal tennis would have some of that data available.

Data is fascinating and it says a lot that we get Kitchen furnishing spam and have done for some time, this is the first time we have had direct contact with a company which faciltates recruitment to college tennis, one can extrapolate and not unreasonably that more readers of this site are likely to get a new kitchen this year than send a son or daughter to play college tennis. I am not even prepared to genu flex on the concept of relevance, the information we have received although very interesting has been part of a legitimate trawl for business (a conflict of interest was declared), the site is constructed in a way that allows one to post on almost any topic so there is also a thread where kitchen spam can be accommodate and unite venders with potential clients.

There are many occasions where thoughtful data collection can vastly improve outcomes and I feel this is one and would reiterate the sentiment that "if you are not counted you don't count"





-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Thursday 10th of December 2015 09:59:20 AM

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Improver

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Oakland2002 wrote:

There are many occasions where thoughtful data collection can vastly improve outcomes and I feel this is one and would reiterate the sentiment that "if you are not counted you don't count"


-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Thursday 10th of December 2015 09:59:20 AM


 

Universal Tennis approached the LTA with this concern in mind, so that the LTA could select the appropriate UK data to be used for a global tennis rating. Are you prepared to present a better solution?



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All-time great

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I am not clear as to who would subscribe to your service but given your post here and your suggestion I assume your data set would identify the reason for subscribing and potential student athlete would be one options in the drop down. That puts in a place to ask questions around socioeconomic and ethnic diversity.

That has to be the starting point. By all means message me through the site I am more than happy to expand on this I am sure you understand your bussiness much better than I and through a forum will prove tedious.

As far as your links with the USTA the use of the USTA of NorCal on the website mislead me

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