US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

RE: US College Signings 2016 (and general college tennis chat)

Kenneth · Lower Club Player

Thanks for the info, cements a lot of stuff we already had a handle on. Agree it is something we could do ourselves but for the price of having a professional assisting you it's probably that route we will go. The only issue is maybe both Tennis Smart and Stars and Stripes will have a network of contacts but that is bound to be slightly limited just due to the sheer number of US universities that there are!
Impossible to have knowledge of every programme. Also how impartial are they? Do the Unis pay them at all for the introduction/recruit?

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Yes, they receive a substantial fee from the universities. However, as they specialise in only one sport, it's no good them getting a reputation for selling round pegs for square holes just to get their commission. There's a strong bush telegraph in college tennis and they'd soon find themselves out of business. They will both have their networks and will obviously push their stronger candidates to those universities where they have a good relationship with the coach. However, they will both be aware of which teams have seniors leaving and, assuming the institution has a good reputation, I'm sure they will be contacting those coaches with videos and resumes as well.

Kenneth · Lower Club Player

Thanks for that, I did wonder if it was just the fee that was charged to the player but something made me think that they must get paid by the uni as well.
One to be aware of!

paulisi · Tennis legend

I see another disgruntled grandparent writing to the Telegraph, moaning about the lack of funding for her child and having to rely on US colleges to support her tennis.
She is just 17 now, so should be on the list. She was originally from Scotland, but is based in Yorkshire now. Grandmother is called Ann Thomas.

Which player does this relate to and why does everyone have the perception that the LTA should be funding them?

I don't see this attitude in athletics.

Edit. I suspect it relates to Holly Horsfall.

-- Edited by paulisi on Saturday 5th of December 2015 12:36:13 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Good spot, paulisi.

I've no idea who the child is but, as you say, there is absolutely no reason that the LTA should be directly funding every half-decent player we have.

Very good French players also choose to go to US college - it's a good route for many, regardless of the local federation set-up.

And as to having to go to all the tournaments, and so needing money, it's simply not true. Yes, it's good/necessary to play some tournaments, but there are some in the UK. You don't need constant ones (unless all you care about is the junior ranking) - just concentrate on the tennis and play as you can.

As said before, you can criticise the LTA (and I do) for not encouraging and fostering a healthy tennis industry (which, in turn, would create opportunities for the child, and all others) but it's not their job just to kick out money.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

The super elite juniors quite rightly get offered full funding.

I can't see any young player with a strong record of performances in the top junior tennis tournaments before their final year of juniors not being offered full funding for transition into senior tennis. The reality is there aren't many of them.

There is obvious value in building a cohort of top 150 players but investing in players outside the junior top 10 at 18 (who would receive begging letters to go the top US colleges) would be a high cost low yield strategy. The onus is on this particular grand daughter to prove us all wrong (and have a fantastic time doing it) and good luck to her.

There are so many better ways of investing in 8-14 year old girls and 8-16 year old boys. We are way off having to worry about having too many high quality juniors that justify funding through transition. Let's not put the cart before the horse

Kenneth · Lower Club Player

Player is Sophie Dodds, a nice player but nowhere near a top junior.

Tennis is too expensive overall, coaches all full time pros, unlike most other sports with volunteers etc. Wrong thread for that mind! Sophie will do fine in US but won't feature in the pro game.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Interesting, Kenneth - thanks for letting us know.

Wish her all the best but, from having watched the two college application youtube videos, Sophie has a lot of work to do ! Holly Horsfall's one was far better.....

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

At the moment Sophie is indeed a nice if unspectacular player. And as such, her grandmother's letter sounds like whining, just wanting someone else to pick up the bill for a hobby. But I think it highlights the real divisiveness of previous LTA junior funding policy. Pre Draper, funding was handed out to juniors on a subjective basis. In practice this meant that it went to kids who were from existing 'tennis families' or those who trained with certain high-profile coaches, and frequently more to boys than girls. In an admirable attempt to level the playing field, matrix funding was introduced.

For the u12s, this was based on talent-ID assessments. County offices and coaches could put forward players aged 7&8 to attend assessment days within their area. These consisted of a variety of running, jumping, throwing and co-ordination tests. Those who did well, went forward to regional and national ID days along the same lines. A selection of children then received some funding and, more importantly, became the responsibility of a Regional Talent Development Manager. The following year, they would re-attend Talent-ID along with other youngsters of their age put forward for the first time by coaches and county offices. However, those who has been picked for help the first year would stand out amongst those who were attending for the first time and the lion's share of places for funding and help in this slightly older age group would go to those children who had received it the prior year. And so on. Once players reached the 12&u age group, the funding and support was based on Tennis Europe then LTA age group rankings. And guess what? Those who had received funding and guidance during their mini-tennis years, including organised trips to European events and WCs into higher grade British junior events hogged the top of the tables and carried on receiving help to the exclusion of all others. And so on through the junior years. A system to breed resentment? You bet!

In fairness, some of the youngsters selected (eg Katie Swan) have undoubtedly been good picks but many have fallen by the wayside over the years, merely reaching their full tennis potential early as a result of the additional help received. Sophie's family are not the only ones to have felt excluded by this system and to wonder whether their own child might not be further ahead in her sport if they had understood the funding system better and managed to squeeze their child onto it at an early age. It also explains the comment about competitions and travel. If you weren't on the funding train at the beginning, the only way of pushing the door open is to get that ranking up through constant competition. And, for girls in particular, this means travel with all its associated costs.

My own view is that money would be better spent during the mini-tennis years in giving funding to clubs and centres to subsidise open-access squads at various skill levels. And augment this with proper talent scouting through all the years. Not just the Talent Development Managers going to tournaments and training bases to watch only the kids they are already in charge of, but LTA staff going to such events and venues to genuinely assess any child they see. Much the same as happens in football and many other sports.

Those youngsters I know who have been/are going through the college system speak of a positivity around them that was hard to find whilst training in the UK. Obviously a generalisation but more than a grain of truth in it I think. It's amazing the improvements that sports people can make when they feel that those around them believe in them. Really hoping this happens for Sophie. Go girl!

emma · Strong Club Player

thank you The Optimist for such detail - it makes a very interesting read.

Tennpar · Strong Club Player

Optimist - good post and an excellent assessment IMHO as a tennis parent, of how the LTA have handled performance youngsters in recent years. My child was never a `chosen one' in the mini tennis days but has continued to work very hard combining school and a good coaching environment. We are grateful that the LTA competition structure has enabled a steady rise up the rankings to the point where our teenager became one of the top ranked and rated players in their age group. I can however say that 'pushing the door open' does not appear to be an option - the decisions appear to have already been made. Due to a lack of transparency, we're not really sure what we don't get but I have to say that even a few words of positivity or encouragement would be welcomed. A lack of any communication from the governing body actually acts as a negative factor. Of course, we don't have to follow the tennis route - there are always options - but we've started the journey and we may as well continue. We kinda like it despite the effort and expense. American uni is our goal and it's great that that option is available.

-- Edited by Tennpar on Sunday 6th of December 2015 11:25:14 PM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Optimist thank you for the post. Really interesting and very challenging which ever way you turn to generate an equitable system that still retains the child's interests and welfare at the centre of the process when the initial talent pool is relatively small and the aim is to start kids so young.

I have to be honest not being a chosen one and choosing to work hard around school and progressing to become a top player in their age group strikes me as a phenomenal achievement and a breath of fresh air that ... Despite the expense and effort we kinda of like it ....exactly the right thing to have done.... 4 years in an American college continuing to play competitive tennis sounds like the perfect thing to do.

UniversalTennis · Improver

Hello, we have enjoyed reading this message thread, and hope you don't mind our contribution.

Disclosure: Universal Tennis provides a player rating service to many organizations involved with U.S. college tennis.

The Optimist wrote... "Also, perfectly acceptable for your daughter to contact college coaches directly via email, giving details of her education, sporting or other achievements and a tennis resume."

We suggest you include your Universal Tennis Rating (UTR), which is used by the ITA (governing body for U.S. college tennis) and many college coaches. British juniors that play ITF and top LTA events will have a UTR. More details can be found at https://goo.gl/VRBw2d
From the ITA website: "College Tennis coaches utilize UTR ratings for recruiting, for scouting opponents, and also to track the levels of their current players. The ITA currently uses UTR ratings to assist with selections and seedings for select regional and national events." http://www.itatennis.com/AboutITA/Partners.htm
"What is the standard of the other players on the team."
All U.S. college players have a UTR, which includes match results from the college fall tournament season, as well as the spring dual match season. Simply compare your UTR with the college roster to determine if there is a level of play fit.
"Some university coaches are more managers and don't really improve the players in their charge, others send their players away vastly better than they arrived."
This can be measured by comparing UTRs of the team's players over time.
"I'm sure if you do choose to use Pippa or Sarah, they will give you lots more."
Both organizations provide essential services, beyond locating a college tennis opportunity. They can also provide suggestions on how a British junior can obtain a reliable UTR.

We would be happy to answer any further questions you might have.

Universal Tennis

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Thank you for your contribution immediate disclosure of a conflict of interest and offer to answer questions.

Are there any mechanisms in place to insure the recruitment of players to college tennis programs represents the ethnic and socioeconomic mix of the sports programmes that generate the scholarship income that pays for tennis scholars ie American football and basketball. How do they compare at the moment?

would you consider playing a role in this?

When clients register with you do you monitor ethnic diversity and as a formal partner of the USTA work with the colleges particularly the small schools where the standard is slightly lower to facilitate culture diversity?

Do you record and publish outcomes for the players you facilitate the recruitment of ie final academic performance (graduation rate and quality of degree) and improvement in player performance rating from Freshman to graduation? This would allow a ranking of added value.

Thank you again for your offer to answer questions.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Wednesday 9th of December 2015 07:06:04 AM