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Post Info TOPIC: Marcus Willis


Futures level

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Marcus Willis


So correct. If you are still playing futures at mid 20s, you must be operating at a loss, and the lta or daddy should not prop you up. It makes me sick, i think lta handouts make life too nice. Imagine if you were from some balklan hell hole and tennis was the only way you had to get out.
good to see another poster talking sense, the trouble is,you guys want the truth, but cannot handle the truth!

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What the LTA should be doing is significantly increasing the number of futures events. People like Josh Goodall do have a role to play in the development of talently GB players and not just as coaches. Remember a few years ago, Kyle Edmund was playing futures and was being tested by the likes of Victor Crivoi, Caio Zampieri and Benjamin Balleret on clay? That is the role that the older GB players need to play. We lose out by having our players drop out early as our young players do not get tested by senior pros at a national level.

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Mark1968 wrote:

Vandenburg makes a very fair point. All the players he has named, and you can add in Milton, Marsalek, Gabb etc have only played financially loss making tennis through their entire career. Rice was recently seen begging on a funding website for donations ( it was posted on here) and if rumour is to be believed Josh Goodall's parents re-mortgaged their house twice to support him.

The LTA have thrown a fortune at these guys and have had virtually nothing back, they are clearly not good enough yet many of you on here still think they should be funded to play at futures level - amazing!

I can't believe that Spectator thinks these people have done well in there careers, if they had been cleaners or dustmen ( no disrespect intended ) they would be financially far better of. How can playing loss making tennis for years make you a success - logic says it doesn't.

There are a few people on here who think they own the forum and don't like people who have alternative views but I notice there are far less people following / commenting on our guys in their mid 20's now than there were a couple of years ago, because they know it's a waste of time, says a lot really.

I am desperate for all our players to succeed but we need to be realistic, if you have played for 3 or 4 years and are not making money you need to accept it's not for you and pack it in, Ward - Hibbert for example.

Cox might still come good again if he can sort his head out and Marcus could be an interesting one but he has to many personal distractions now, but lets see.


What Spectator pointed to was the ranking positions these players had achieved in GB, indeed the world, in tennis, a sport that is played so widely throughout the world.

You may wish to dismiss this, look at in purely monetary terms and dismiss this as failure. I'd suggest that most people look at how much a success you are based on rather more than how much money you make. To dismiss sports people's achievements ( and indeed success in other fields ) if they have not made money, and there are many sports that it is even more difficult to make a living, is not something I myself comprehend.

And, as chavkev said, from a wider point of view keeping such relatively very good players in the sport longer, both to test younger players and as future coaches ( and it is recognised that the UK is very short of top quality lcoaches ) is in tennis's wider interests in this country..

As CD suggests it is all very well to point to throwing money at players that are not going to reach the very top ranks. And while yes that us not done elsewhere, there is no real back up structure in this country to support what are still very good players and potential coaches. So we are left in the position that lack of direct funding and competitions leaves them without any real safety net of other good tennis alternatives. Much of another generation possibly lost to British tennis doesn't help develop future generations.



-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 5th of November 2016 02:41:47 PM

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chavkev wrote:

What the LTA should be doing is significantly increasing the number of futures events. People like Josh Goodall do have a role to play in the development of talently GB players and not just as coaches. Remember a few years ago, Kyle Edmund was playing futures and was being tested by the likes of Victor Crivoi, Caio Zampieri and Benjamin Balleret on clay? That is the role that the older GB players need to play. We lose out by having our players drop out early as our young players do not get tested by senior pros at a national level.


 More futures events absolutely, apparently there are problems there which have been discussed by other members on this forum, but that's what is needed.

Josh Goodall coaching, did you ever see him on a tennis court? you must be joking?  This is a man who thought Harry Meehan was playing top 100 tennis and yes i've seen him play as well.



-- Edited by Mark1968 on Saturday 5th of November 2016 02:48:52 PM

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Vandenburg wrote:

So correct. If you are still playing futures at mid 20s, you must be operating at a loss, and the lta or daddy should not prop you up. It makes me sick, i think lta handouts make life too nice. Imagine if you were from some balklan hell hole and tennis was the only way you had to get out.
good to see another poster talking sense, the trouble is,you guys want the truth, but cannot handle the truth!


 Yes, a lot don't get it.  British youth have it to easily generally in the UK and when you hear players moaning about funding you can't help feeling they should be working harder at their game rather than looking elsewhere for excuses as to why they are not at the level they should be.



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Coup Droit wrote:

I also do not think the LTA should be directly funding a pack of 26 year-olds who are ranked 350 in the world, say.

I do not know of any other country that does either.

But the problem with this argument, Mark, is that it fails to take into account other factors in those other countries.

Using France, as I always do (for obvious reasons) but also knowing that Spain and Italy (and others?) are very similar, the problem is that the LTA fails to provide a tennis industry in this country.

And so the GB tennis players are exposed, with no possible alternative supplementary funding system.

If you had a thriving club system, with large numbers of the public playing competitive tennis, so needing coaches, and attracting sponsors, and everything else that goes with it, then tennis becomes just about viable for your 25 year-old ATP 350 guy and he has a choice.

With the LTA doing none of this, the British 25 year-old has basically no choice.

So, in my mind, it is true what you say about the LTA having thrown a huge amount of money at a small groups of players with no return.

But that is the LTA's fault, and a bad business model. It does not mean that the players should not be supported but that it should be done in an indirect way.

And if this is impossible in the near term, then a temporary system as a stop-gap may well make sense.


 Fair enough but you will not get more people playing tennis for several reasons such as bad weather, the obsession with PC games / mobile phones and the general lazyness of British youth plus the fact that whilst we love tennis, most people only care for 2 weeks of the year.

We need more futures / challengers and a bit more money on the British Tour.  Only £200 for winning a Tier 2 event is an insult.



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The FACT that this and last weeks ITF events in England had overseas players in both finals sort of tells us all a lot does it not?


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Mark1968 wrote:

The FACT that this and last weeks ITF events in England had overseas players in both finals sort of tells us all a lot does it not?


 Does it ? What does it tell you ?



-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 5th of November 2016 02:54:56 PM

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But how is this different from France, Mark?

The weather is not much different - even in the south, where it's better, it's all clay, so no one can play outside for 3-4 months of the year anyway, it's all inside.

And the youth love PC games just as much and is just as 'lazy'.

And, yes, the British public only care about tennis for two weeks but that's just stating the same problem - i.e. it's the fault of the system that they only care about tennis for 2 weeks, not the fact that we only care about tennis for two weeks that makes the system bound to fail.

I don't think more futures/challengers is really the answer. Or, at least, it's only part of the answer.

The LTA has to create a dynamic, competitive, singles tennis culture among clubs. They have to make it a sport. For all levels. Not just a leisure activity for most and a sport for a select few.

NB I prefer the lower prize money for the British Tour. I thought there were certain players who were over-playing them.
I think though that there should be at least 3 or 4 British Tour events each week. If not more. Geographically based. So that for most weeks of the year, someone in the North-east, say, can go and play an event, within travel distance of his/her home (some closer, some further). Every week. As fits with their schedule. They should form part of regional circuits. With play-offs at the end of the year. And the top ranks should feed to national championships, as they do now. It needs a defined structure that ties it to the place, so sponsors and local people care. And, preferably, team tennis too.





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Mark1968 wrote:

The FACT that this and last weeks ITF events in England had overseas players in both finals sort of tells us all a lot does it not?


 er, sorry?

This week's German 10k has foreign players in the final. As does this week's Amercian 10k.

Et alors????



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Coup Droit wrote:

But how is this different from France, Mark?

The weather is not much different - even in the south, where it's better, it's all clay, so no one can play outside for 3-4 months of the year anyway, it's all inside.

And the youth love PC games just as much and is just as 'lazy'.

And, yes, the British public only care about tennis for two weeks but that's just stating the same problem - i.e. it's the fault of the system that they only care about tennis for 2 weeks, not the fact that we only care about tennis for two weeks that makes the system bound to fail.

I don't think more futures/challengers is really the answer. Or, at least, it's only part of the answer.

The LTA has to create a dynamic, competitive, singles tennis culture among clubs. They have to make it a sport. For all levels. Not just a leisure activity for most and a sport for a select few.

NB I prefer the lower prize money for the British Tour. I thought there were certain players who were over-playing them.
I think though that there should be at least 3 or 4 British Tour events each week. If not more. Geographically based. So that for most weeks of the year, someone in the North-east, say, can go and play an event, within travel distance of his/her home (some closer, some further). Every week. As fits with their schedule. They should form part of regional circuits. With play-offs at the end of the year. And the top ranks should feed to national championships, as they do now. It needs a defined structure that ties it to the place, so sponsors and local people care. And, preferably, team tennis too.




 Futures / Challengers are the answer because this is the only way outside of the main tour that you can win ranking points and earn money.  Being the best player at your local club won't get you up the rankings.



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Coup Droit wrote:
Mark1968 wrote:

The FACT that this and last weeks ITF events in England had overseas players in both finals sort of tells us all a lot does it not?


 er, sorry?

This week's German 10k has foreign players in the final. As does this week's Amercian 10k.

Et alors????


 It would be unfair of me to comment on the state of German and American tennis as I don't follow it closely enough plus this is a British forum.  You are just distracting from another poor week for our players.



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I don't think so.

I know the state of French tennis very well and very often the finalists are not French.

In the last one, it was a Belgian and an Italian, for instance.

It is not a sad reflection on the state of French tennis.

And more futures/challengers are not the answer if you don't have the level. The way to get the level is to have a dynamic club scene. Being the best club player will lead to the other. It's a question of having a sensible business model for the future. Not just patching over the problems of the moment.


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Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think so.

I know the state of French tennis very well and very often the finalists are not French.

In the last one, it was a Belgian and an Italian, for instance.

It is not a sad reflection on the state of French tennis.

And more futures/challengers are not the answer if you don't have the level. The way to get the level is to have a dynamic club scene. Being the best club player will lead to the other. It's a question of having a sensible business model for the future. Not just patching over the problems of the moment.


 If only it were that simple CD.  You forget we live in a country controlled by the PC brigade where everyone is considered equal.  I know through my young family members that competition is largely discouraged amongst youngsters in schools ( where many first pick up a racket) and even at some sports clubs.  When kids get trophies for turning up on time or for finishing 37th in the cross country we've got no chance.   Apparently it's the taking part that counts not winning.  Things need to change.



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Mark1968 wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think so.

I know the state of French tennis very well and very often the finalists are not French.

In the last one, it was a Belgian and an Italian, for instance.

It is not a sad reflection on the state of French tennis.

And more futures/challengers are not the answer if you don't have the level. The way to get the level is to have a dynamic club scene. Being the best club player will lead to the other. It's a question of having a sensible business model for the future. Not just patching over the problems of the moment.


 If only it were that simple CD.  You forget we live in a country controlled by the PC brigade where everyone is considered equal.  I know through my young family members that competition is largely discouraged amongst youngsters in schools ( where many first pick up a racket) and even at some sports clubs.  When kids get trophies for turning up on time or for finishing 37th in the cross country we've got no chance.   Apparently it's the taking part that counts not winning.  Things need to change.


 I must confess that an element of that strikes a chord with me.  I was quite a sickly child, so once I got well and was able to take part in sport, I was a very competitive and I must say annoying child.  One year I won every event in the school sports day and the next year it was changed into some team-building event so that there were no winners or losers.  I'm not sure what lesson they were trying to teach us as I repeatedly tripped over my bottom lip for the entire event.



-- Edited by chavkev on Saturday 5th of November 2016 04:05:54 PM

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