Dan Cox

Ratty · County player

RE: Dan Cox

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

Any inherent limitations on the sport and its revenue are surely all the more reason for the LTA to change the tennis culture to something along the lines of the French system.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

emma wrote:

I need to put my energies into creativity so will ponder on this.

its not that difficult to set up a charity and there are many avenues to go to for funding - trusts, private companies, individuals etc. it doesn't mean not following up with questioning the lta but maybe another source to help players. Are there any people on this board who may express interest ? what do people think ?

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 12:40:18 AM

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 01:45:02 AM

Looked briefly at this idea myself last year. A crowd funded charity to provide travel and accommodation support. Quick research showed me that you cannot get charitable status to support professionals who already earn a living in that field.

If you can find a way around that, I will share my ideas

Spectator · All-time great

Ratty wrote:
And for a libertarian economist's ruthless perspective on the matter:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/02/07/lousy-wages-are-the-universes-way-of-telling-you-to-go-do-something-else/

Forgive me - this has nothing to do with Dan Cox per se - but that article seems to be one which, while acknowledging that the markets are amoral in their valuations, then goes on to say that in a market economy, the market is "correct" and that people in low-wage jobs should "get out." I tire of articles written by people in high-paying jobs saying that people in lower-paying jobs should find something else to do if they are not getting enough, as if this were a simple proposition. It's particularly ironic given that the writers are also often people who take a dim view of collective action by those for whom "quitting the market" in a given area on their own is going to get them nowhere. Sorry - but if you look at home-care workers, or people in other jobs that the "market" thinks are basically valueless, it's pretty horrifying. Rant over. Now, back to tennis ...

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 13th of February 2015 08:16:25 AM

-- Edited by Spectator on Friday 13th of February 2015 08:19:46 AM

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

emma wrote:

I need to put my energies into creativity so will ponder on this.

its not that difficult to set up a charity and there are many avenues to go to for funding - trusts, private companies, individuals etc. it doesn't mean not following up with questioning the lta but maybe another source to help players. Are there any people on this board who may express interest ? what do people think ?

There is something for the youngsters though - Tennis First

PaulM · Tennis legend

If tennis players can't make money in the UK because the sport is not popular enough to open up commercial opportunities or provide a domestic tournament or club structure which pays (as in other parts of Europe), then that blame lies at the door of the LTA as governing body's failure to market and promote the sport generally (which is evidence by the disappointing participation numbers). Similarly if rounded athletes are always picking football or athletics over tennis, the LTA has to ask itself why that is.

You can't just sit back and go, well Wimbledon and Queen's are popular so that should be enough. The posts above about the tournaments being too centrally organized to the detriment of local promotion is true, but it doesn't need to be like that. The marketing budget for these events does not need to be big at all, it's more about community outreach - the Midland $100k that was held last week is a great example, as Naomi Cavaday posted on her blog. Most of the US events have pro-am events where the players get a small fee, they have player parties with sponsors attending, the players are asked to go into local schools or other community places (Emily was asked to speak at the local Rotary Club for example) - all these things are so easy to do and it gets bums on seats for the matches, but the LTA don't bother because Aegon have written the cheque so it's job done as far as they are concerned, it makes no odds to them whether 1 or 100 people show up to watch the matches. Even when the UK ITF's run short kids tennis sessions alongside the main event I feel there isn't enough to integrate and link that with the pro event - it's bus the kids in, let them hit a few foam balls, then back out again. No players coming in to help out, or chat to the kids and parents.

None of this is rocket science. Will it give us more top 100 players, probably not, but the tournaments which tap into the community are most successful, and it makes the experience more enjoyable for the players too. It doesn't have to be expensive and if it gets more kids excited about the sport then that's brilliant.

It was good to see 20-30 people at Glasgow even during the day through the week, but there's no reason at all why the stands shouldn't be completely full on finals weekend

Sim · County player

The LTA needs to increase the number of people playing tennis.

British players need to earn more money to stay in the game.

Why doesn't the LTA pay players something to promote tennis when they play at British events. Would have to commit so many hours to go to local schools, clubs etc near to where they are playing that week but would allow them to earn extra money and promote tennis at the same time.

bigboyjumbo · Lower Club Player

How do other countries and players cope? we arent exactly a poor nation. Are people from a poorer background hungrier? I would be intrigued to see how they manage when we quite clearly cant. when i was playing we were told at a very early age, top 200-150 to make a living nothing has changed. Maybe it should just be made crystal clear to players that thats where they need to be, but in turn that would scare people off of playing.

-- Edited by bigboyjumbo on Friday 13th of February 2015 02:14:53 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

EddietheEagle wrote:
Answers on a postcard to Peter Keen at the LTA, recruited as consultant to look into the funding of 'emerging players'.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/11409150/LTA-turns-to-other-sports-to-rescue-British-tennis.html

Pleased to see that they are getting some fresh brains to look at the problem. And from outside of tennis. Of course, might also the question: what's happening to the money that's being saved by the cuts? Being spent on paying guys to look at how to cut money and spend it . . . reminds you of the 'hole in my bucket' circular songs . . . but a good idea (probably).

Although a bit removed from Dan, bigboyjumbo (BBJ it's going to have to be) has a good point. When you look at other nations, just randomly selected (but not the big ones), I looked at how many players each country has in the 200-1000 range i.e. not making a living but with a fighting chance and obviously taking their tennis seriously.

Czech - 22

Brazil - 31

Serbia - 16

Solvakia - 10

Japan - 25

Ukraine - 12

Croatia - 14

Mexico - 9

Portugal - 9

Some of these countries are pretty small. most have very small budgets. How do their players survive ? I've no idea. (NB GB has 25 players in this category). It would be interesting if anyone knew . ..

bigboyjumbo · Lower Club Player

Thanks Coup, it would be interesting. Unfortunately there are how many thousands of players competing for 150 places. I suppose this is why some players turn to doubles, to still be able to make a living playing a sport they love. But then i guess it all boils down to how long you leave it until enough is enough. Its like a business you could put thousands in at a great risk and come out with nothing. Could we possibly compare tennis to golf? both expensive to play.

emma · Strong Club Player

Bob in Spain wrote:
emma wrote:

I need to put my energies into creativity so will ponder on this.

its not that difficult to set up a charity and there are many avenues to go to for funding - trusts, private companies, individuals etc. it doesn't mean not following up with questioning the lta but maybe another source to help players. Are there any people on this board who may express interest ? what do people think ?

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 12:40:18 AM

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 01:45:02 AM
Looked briefly at this idea myself last year. A crowd funded charity to provide travel and accommodation support. Quick research showed me that you cannot get charitable status to support professionals who already earn a living in that field.
If you can find a way around that, I will share my ideas

thanks Bob, I may come back to you if I find any way around this - there are usually loopholes !

emma · Strong Club Player

The Optimist wrote:
emma wrote:

I need to put my energies into creativity so will ponder on this.

its not that difficult to set up a charity and there are many avenues to go to for funding - trusts, private companies, individuals etc. it doesn't mean not following up with questioning the lta but maybe another source to help players. Are there any people on this board who may express interest ? what do people think ?

There is something for the youngsters though - Tennis First

oh, that's interesting Optimist. looking at the board members, it does all seem inter-connected with the lta and Wimbledon though.

eek.

It is these players that Tennis First seeks to help and they fall into 4 main categories:

(a) the financially challenged
(b) players who have had long term injuries and whose ranking has fallen significantly
(c) late developers
(d) LTA funded players who do not have sufficient funding to allow them to maximise their development

the above is from their website. (c) late developers - what does that mean ? also (a) and (d) seems a bit vague.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

You have to apply as an individual direct to the charity- there are forms on the website. It doesn't take nominations from LTA or Wimbie. Haven't looked at the website for a while, but there used to be a fair mix of grantees. Not sure how big the grants are though.

indiana · Tennis legend

'late developers' = players who, not unusually, are not great juniors, but then really begin to push on in their early 20s or even later, so far too late for the LTA to be remotely interested or help, since they will have written them off years ago and will now be seen as too old to ever make it. Many such players could really use help.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
'late developers' = players who, not unusually, are not great juniors, but then really begin to push on in their early 20s or even later, so far too late for the LTA to be remotely interested or help, since they will have written them off years ago and will now be seen as too old to ever make it. Many such players could really use help.

But I thought the charity only is for juniors ?