Dan Cox

indiana · Tennis legend

RE: Dan Cox

LordBrownof · Futures level

Shhh wrote:
"Welcome big boy" isn't the sort of phrase I am comfortable making but...................always nice to see a new poster

Speak for yourself.

LordBrownof · Futures level

Surely the issue here isn't Dan inidividually, what car he drives, how much money his parents have - that's all a distraction.

Here's the rub for me - and this isn't so much of an opinion but more an observation- no one, not the number 26 or the number 426 has a given right to earn money playing tennis. These things are dictated to a large degree by the popularity of the sport (and thus, sponsorship, TV rights etc). All this chat about Nadal and co doing more for the lowly ranked players is, in my view, rubbish. No one is paying to watch Jesse Huta Gulang play. They're paying to watch the big guys. It's trickle down economics, right?

So the issue isn't whether you should make money being the 430th best tennis player in the world (the football analogy is, again, frankly rubbish), it's about whether the system, here being the LTA, is providing enough structural support for players with the most potential to reach a point where they can make a living based on the current popularity of the game, where the trickle down trickles out (at present that's about 150?) and whether that system has enough flexiblity in it to recognise the ever changing demographics of that top 150 (age, injury etc).

So this isn't about what car Dan drives (such tone deafness, in my view) but about whether Dan (or whoever) is good enough, and within a reasonable age, condition etc, to make the top 150. And if he is, then what do we need to change in the system to make that a viable option?

So here's a challenge - what three things would you implement at the LTA that would give those financially struggling but with the potential to make, say, top 150, the chance to do so?

EddietheEagle · County player

With rare exceptions, it's impossible to predict a player's top potential. So many factors go into the realisation of playing potential and a sports governing body, primarily a regulatory authority, is neither soothsayer nor realiser of dreams. Adult professional tennis players are independent contractors and need to work out and finance their own careers.

bigboyjumbo · Lower Club Player

The comparison to football isnt relevant as its a team sport, 11 players starting and however many on the bench & when you think a complete squad is however many. If you dont get game time with one team you move and get paid. It needs to be compared to other individual sports.

There is always another option in a team sport but when it comes down to just you, it just goes down to how good you are and obviously if you put the work in, in a team sport you can get away with looking good because your team is playing welll. But like every sport its a results game im affraid, you know when you sign up that you have to be in the top so many to make a good living. So its nothing new really.

-- Edited by bigboyjumbo on Thursday 12th of February 2015 03:22:15 PM

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Great post LordB. Not sure I agree with all of it but an interesting and valid viewpoint. What 3 things to change? Hmmm. Not sure, but one thing often strikes me about our lower tiers of players. I feel most of them have started full-time on the pro circuit before they are really ready.

To my mind, very few players really reach the heights if they are playing futures / 10Ks for more than a year/18 months without regularly getting to the sharp end of events. Players sort of get stuck and their game stops improving. They end up chasing points and not able to devote enough time to training or being coached. They pick up bad habits and can lose sight of the bigger picture. And as Dan has intimated in his article, the lower tiers can be soul destroying.

Junior tennis and adult tennis is very segregated in the UK. Players go from playing age group tennis and maybe a few junior ITFs into pro events and are easy pickings for experienced journeymen. Some of them may well have the ability to break through but by the time they have spent a couple of years on the bottom run picking up a point here or a point there, that ability has been eroded. I know Liam has come through after a slightly longer period in futures but in interviews he has said how hard he found it to perform outside of the comfort zone he had previously inhabited.

We either need to integrate adults and juniors more at every level so the kids are a bit tougher and have a more realistic view of their standard before going pro so that they don't launch onto the tour before they are ready, send them to uni in the US to mature and grow their game for a couple of years or introduce some more stepping stones, like the BT, between junior and pro play.

EddietheEagle · County player

Answers on a postcard to Peter Keen at the LTA, recruited as consultant to look into the funding of 'emerging players'.

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/11409150/LTA-turns-to-other-sports-to-rescue-British-tennis.html

indiana · Tennis legend

Hmm, I must find time to get in touch with Mr Keen. At least I can get some ramblings off my chest by writing to him.

At least, well hopefully, they do seem aware that funding of emerging players is rather an issue. Think one thing that needs established is criteria for 'emerging' eg. age. Also, emphasis as CD has explained, on how different we are to some other countries re alternative income sources. And more ...

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

I realise I'm going off at something of a tangent here, but I couldn't see an obvious thread on which to post this point, so my apologies...

Lots of people have wasted little or no time in condemning the LTA for the apparent short-sightedness of its policy with regard to the development & support of (promising, young-ish) British tennis players. God knows, I despair of its rationale as much as the next man/woman ( ), but something I read in the London Evening Standard in an article about the impending closure of its fund-raising campaign on behalf of a charity which assists homeless ex-service personnel (Veterans Aid/ABF The Soldiers' Charity) on my way home from work today, however, surprised me & gave me pause for thought - & rather warmed the c0ckles of my heart:

Colonel Cardozo [the Veterans Aid fund-raiser heavily involved in finding the money needed to pay for the upgrading & extension of a 55-bed long-stay hostel in Stepney, East London] pointed out that the campaign had not just raised money for Veterans Aid, but had encouraged people to donate gifts as well.

The Lawn Tennis Association even donated unworn Hugo Boss umpire jackets and T-shirts. He said: The guys were really happy. You can see how quickly their self-esteem comes back when they wear them.

(my bold)

It would appear it still has a compassionate side...

P.S. Apparent misspelling of "c0ckles" necessary to get round Activeboard censorship! furious

emma · Strong Club Player

yes, maybe we could set up a charity to help with funding of players. I've worked for a lot of charities, unfortunately seen a lot of money wasted but also a lot of good done too.

emma · Strong Club Player

I need to put my energies into creativity so will ponder on this.

its not that difficult to set up a charity and there are many avenues to go to for funding - trusts, private companies, individuals etc. it doesn't mean not following up with questioning the lta but maybe another source to help players. Are there any people on this board who may express interest ? what do people think ?

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 12:40:18 AM

-- Edited by emma on Friday 13th of February 2015 01:45:02 AM

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Sport and it's funding is not as bizarre as it is made out to be, there is justification for the incredible amounts of money paid to the top 250 English footballers let alone in the world in that Sky and Bt have just forked out 5.1 billion to pay for the rights to cover it. I don't know quite how much the LTA generate in TV income annually but you have to ask will it come close to the 99 million a team will get for coming bottom of the premiership. It's resources are finite and it is investing them in a way that it hopes will generate top 30 players in the future as it is only top 30 players that are appealing to the mass market audiences.

We are a niche group who are very interested in British tennis but the fact that the article concerned that has generate the ripples of wrath and car envy was in the Lincolnshire Echo probably says it all. The lack of money directly relates to the low profile of the sport in the UK. I am sure S****horpe United players have a higher profile than Dan, perhaps even sponsored cars I don't know or care.

Dan was quite within his right as many elite athletes have before to shine in any sport of his choosing. The LTA's problem is to get the elite athletes who have the potential to be in the top 200 in their early 20's to chose tennis. There is plenty of cash in the lower tiers of football even in Lincolnshire because 5000 fans will travel to watch Worcester City play S****horpe in the FA Cup and then go again to watch the replay that BT will televise live. Unfortunately the LTA has to cut its clothe to try and deliver its objectives.

Dan at 250 in the world does have a fantastic opportunity to push on into the top 150 where there is a living to be made, it is his opportunity. Unfortunately as has been pointed out earlier no one will pay to watch it. I hope his article does generate some support for his endeavours but I can't but help feel that if we could get more Isiah Osbournes to play tennis we would have more players in the world top 200 aged 22 or less, he however is making a very good living in sunny Scuny.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Amazing S****horpe got auto edited, just need to try a few things.... David Cameron, HSBC bankers, Peter Mandelson, Daily Mail and Kevin Peterson

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Now where is the moral justice in that! Kevin Peterson untouched.

rich81 · Social player

Maybe because it's spelt Kevin Pie*****n? biggrin