Dan Cox

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

RE: Dan Cox

steven · Tennis legend

EddietheEagle wrote:
If you want to run a tournament, there shouldn't be any block put on you, nor for that matter any legal obligation to accommodate the needs of an over-arching 'corporate partner' i.e Aegon. Provided you meet the criteria - which for 99% of pro tournaments are set by the pro tours (WTA/ATP) and not by national federations - then you should be given every encouragement to proceed and given a slot in the national calendar.

Take a look at the Spanish pro circuit. Dozens of local tournaments, each individually organised and promoted with their own local flavour and band of supporters and sponsors. Nothing 'corporate' about them at all; it's anarchical by comparison. These tournaments stand or fall on merit.

Obviously I appreciate the support AEGON give to British tennis (and the LTA did very well to negotiate the deal they have with them) but I do think the way tournaments are quite so centrally controlled in this country has negative effects. For example, if the impetus to hold them came from the clubs rather than the centre (as it seems to in France, Canada, the US, etc), it's far more likely that they would be promoted locally and the local community would get more involved.

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Totally right, £40,000 - £50,000 a year in travelling expenses is ridiculous. But maybe not if you are staying in 5 star hotels. wink

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

The Optimist, do you seriously think, for even a split second, that a sponsor is going to give a BMW yet alone a private plate to a player who is struggling to pay to get to tournaments and does not even have a puplic profile! disbelief All is as it seems.

steven · Tennis legend

Mark1968 wrote:
Do you seriously think, for even a split second, that a sponsor is going to give a BMW and a private plate to a player who is struggling to pay to get to tournaments and does not even have a puplic profile! All is as it seems.

I think it's dangerous to make assumptions like this without knowing the full story. It's much cheaper for companies to sponsor people by providing their own products than by providing actual funding to the same value, simply because the actual cost of a car to the manufacturer is the retail price less the dealer's markup and the manufacturer's markup, so it's not hard to understand why a car manufacturer might sponsor a few players who they see as having a chance of having a public profile one day in this way rather than providing actual funding.

I don't know what the case is with Dan, but it's clear that Plan Cars are doing this with Tara, so it's not impossible that Dan has a similar arrangement with BMW, or perhaps more likely a BMW dealership in Lincolnshire.

Also, while CD is correct that it would be a large payment-in-kind, it wouldn't do much to meet his tennis funding needs apart from saving on some travel costs in the UK - it would be far more useful to him to have the value of the car in cash and I'm sure if he did have the cash, he would be spending most of it on his tennis rather than splashing out on a flashy car, yet it's hardly surprising that he accepted the sponsorship-in-kind if he was offered it.

Of course, for all I know, the car in question might not have been provided by a sponsor at all - it might belong to his parents and they might have lent it to him to get to some tournaments in order to save money on other travel options, or he might have it for some reason we haven't even thought of or the reports of it have been exaggerated.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

Mark1968 wrote:
Do you seriously think, for even a split second, that a sponsor is going to give a BMW and a private plate to a player who is struggling to pay to get to tournaments and does not even have a puplic profile! All is as it seems.

As I said, no idea about Dan's wheels, and though a sponsored car is unlikely, it would not necessarily be impossible. For all I know, his uncle might run the local BMW dealership !!!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

paulisi wrote:
I'd take Dan C's comments with a pinch of salt. I think some of the costs quoted have been exaggerated.

I completely agree. I've never seen figures that high.

Using three different sources:

(1) several French guys who've also been complaining about prize money levels, claim that their travelling and living on tour expenses are between 20k (euros) and 25k euros. (I thought 20,000 euros was low but it's true it's cheaper to drive most places than have to cross the channel first).

(2) a while back, Gary A1 said he was paying Marcus £25 to cover all expenses and live.

(3) Peter Bothwell (I'm pretty sure it was) wrote that it costs about £800 to play a pro event. So, assuming you play about half the year, that's about £20k (and would presuambly be slightly higher if you were traveling a little further and trying challengers, say).

But, net net, they're all in the £20-25k sort of range. Nowhere near Dan's numbers.

TMH · Futures qualifying

Mark1968 wrote:
Sorry 'all rounder' but Dan was not brilliant in Glasgow last week. His capitulation from a winning position twice in his Q-F ( not for the first time against a number 1 seed in a challenger ) is typical that most of our guys of this age don't progress further than that stage of a challenger. Most of us on here are happy for one of our players to get to a 2nd round of a challenger which is not good enough for players of this age, and herein lies the problem.
Dan, who I support and have sympathy with is struggling to make tennis pay, but can afford to drive an expensive private plated BMW, I think a closer look at priorities is called for!
As for our other mid 20's guys if we are honest with ourselves we know they are never going to be top 150 singles players. Some need to pair up more in doubles ( what happened to the successful Corrie / Smethurst partnership ) to make it pay.
In saying this the LTA cuts have effectively closed the doors to the younger guys as well, they will need family support if available.

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 04:09:10 PM

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 04:18:28 PM

Given the majority of players are peaking closer to their 30s these days (and some even past that), I have to say I couldn't disagree any further. This is exactly the attitude that epitomises the LTA. Writing players off at 24/25 is, quite frankly, absurd.

indiana · Tennis legend

The current 24/25 group were being written off by the LTA, certainly some there, years ago! Even though some words from them, but never really their actions, have recognised the changing age profiles of top players.

And some have significantly advanced in the interim ( yes, after plateau periods ) with generally little LTA ( and now reducing re such as tournament bonuses ) backup.

Spectator · All-time great

steven wrote:

Obviously I appreciate the support AEGON give to British tennis (and the LTA did very well to negotiate the deal they have with them) but I do think the way tournaments are quite so centrally controlled in this country has negative effects. For example, if the impetus to hold them came from the clubs rather than the centre (as it seems to in France, Canada, the US, etc), it's far more likely that they would be promoted locally and the local community would get more involved.

Hard to know whether clubs here would do the same as clubs elsewhere (I haven't a clue, but from what CD has said, the club cultures are quite different). But I wholeheartedly (a) agree that it would be great if people who wanted to show initiative were enabled to do so and (b) wonder what would happen, vis a vis those clubs that don't seem to be as keen on community engagement, whether having someone (funded by the LTA or by outside sources) whose role would involve helping them to be imaginative (about advertising, programmes, seating, etc) might be useful.

On the broader questions of cars and costs, as Steven says, it's risky to make assumptions without knowing the full story. Plenty of people drive around in cars not their own.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

I am guessing that Dan is possibly a reader of this forum - although I could be wrong.

Say what you like about my tennis but don't slate things about my personal life about what I do & don't have without true facts #smallminds

With regard to cars, I have no idea what Dan's arrangement is or what car costs are in the UK. But last time I did some research on Leasing cars in Spain, I could get a very decent model (Peugeot), brand new for as little as 50 pounds per month. At that price, it seems entirely feasible that a sponsor would lease a car to a player in return for some kind of publicity.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

If Dan is a reader of this forum then, hopefully and presumably, he will appreciate all the support he gets throughout the year, and this in a country which provides so little support for players of his level. I assume there have been texts to that effect. (?)

He will also, I assume, accept the fact that one has every right to raise a couple of questions about his personal life as he was the very one who had brought the subject up by doing a big newspaper article about it. If he wants everyone to stick 100% to his tennis, then do not go public with the personal issues. (I'm not saying he's wrong - it was a very powerful article - but you can't have it both ways).

Questions re travel expenses amounts are very fair. It's a big issue for all players. Even questions re the car are very valid. If you publicly claim that you are dirt broke, or close to it, and that the public bodies should do more to help, then answer the question re the car ( or don't but accept that people will speculate). As Bob says, there are various possible answers (we talked about sponsorship previously, which may well be likely, but is still a perk, and so income. And, yes, it might have been a birthday present, or whatever). No one's criticising, as such, just asking the question in light of the article. And in an overall supportive environment (look at ALL the posts re the need for more help for our players - there's been tons).

indiana · Tennis legend

I sometimes wonder if, and how regularly, anyone from the LTA reads this forum.

For in amongst some natural piffel ( to which I am sure I contribute ), there are many interesting and well argued contributions.

If they don't do it, I think it would be worth say an LTA media guy regularly scanning forums like this ( i.e. the good ones :) ) and giving some feedback to others about concerns and points and questions being raised, such as the many re help for our players.

Jaffa · Challenger level

I personally think Dan is right with the opinions on this thread, it's ridiculous that people are actually bothered about what car he drives about in, in my opinion.

Edit: If, indeed, he does read this forum, which again is speculation.

-- Edited by Jaffa on Wednesday 11th of February 2015 12:03:09 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

What very many people in this forum have shown they are very bothered about is the help for many players like Dan and I think it would be fair to say this has been largely sympathetic to the players and critical of the LTA, or at least confused as to their hinking.

This thread highlighted a well written article by Dan and has positive comments about it.

However, a point was raised about his car and potential counterpoints brought up. In the course of a further well rounded discussion on this forum this seemed perfectly legitimate to me, and again raised points and counterpoints which some folk may not have been aware of or really considered.