Week 7 - ATP 500 - Rotterdam (Hard)

steven · Tennis legend

RE: Week 7 - ATP 500 - Rotterdam (Hard)

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Guys. It was meant to be a simple question. Sorry cry

Thanks anyway. I think I will just wait and see.

And let's just hope of course that Andy wins afterall. It will be worth winning just to get an answer to my question.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
I think I agree with Bob. My reasoning (and presumably Bob's too): Rotterdam is a 500, so just by playing, he gets to replace one of the zero-pointers he got for not playing four 500 events last year. That would mean the 90 points for Monte Carlo would remain a counting score too. It also explains why on the top 25 table, I have him increasing his points total by 20 (the Doha points that are not counting at the moment) even if he goes out in R1 here.

However, I won't be 100% sure until we see how they update the rankings next week.

And don't drag me into this argument. I mean, all I did was start the whole thing off LOL. biggrin biggrin

To be honest, my logic was based on the fact that the Top 25 table said "removes a 0pts", so don't rely on me for any accurate interpretations of the rules. It's all Greek to me.

steven · Tennis legend

LOL all my fault then. Except in this case, I'm inclined to put the blame on the ATP, both for having a stupid rule and for expressing it so badly.

Thanks again to RJA for clearing it up. I'm still only 99% convinced he won't be able to count both Rotterdam and MC next week, but once again that's the fault of the ATP (and perhaps my brain, for not being able to process a system that is quite that stupid)

No need to apologise, Bob - if you hadn't brought this up, I'd have been reporting a probably incorrect points total for Andy all week, which could have been very embarrassing if 4th place did become an issue.

-- Edited by steven on Tuesday 11th of February 2014 04:16:02 PM

Jan · Hall of fame

Wow that's complicated!
Do we think the players understand the system? Do the ATP even understand it?!

RJA · Hall of fame

steven wrote:
Thanks for the example, RJA. If that's what happened with Rafa (not something I paid much attention to at the time, I must admit!) then maybe Andy won't be able to count Rotterdam yet.

In fact, I did consider that possible interpretation of the rule as far as commitment players go, but then I thought to myself, what if a player was ranked in the top 30 at the end of (say) 2012 then had to miss the whole of 2013 due to injury, would they not be able to count ANY 500 events (or at least, no more than two 250 or 500 scores) until they had played four 500 events in 2014 or at least gone past the date of the first of the 'filler' zero-pointers?
That seemed to me so utterly ridiculous that it couldn't possibly be a sensible interpretation of the rule. Silly me to think that an ATP ranking rule aimed at forcing players to play particular tournaments couldn't be utterly ridiculous - you'd think I'd know by now ...

I wonder if it's possible that they only realised how ridiculous it was following the Rafa situation and then subtly modified the rule at the same time as they changed it to allow up to six 250s to be counted as long as four 500s had been played. I've just found a copy of the 2012 rules though, and it doesn't look like the wording has changed.

I don't actually think the rule is silly although it probably needs looking at when somebody misses a big chunk of the season through injury. The ATP obviously want a good number of top players in all ATP 500 events hence the rule that the top 30 should each play a minimum of 4 of these events. For the rule to have any force there obviously needs to be a effective sanction for not following it and allowing players to make up events at the start of the following year would make the punishment almost worthless. What is the point of giving someone a mandatory zero after Basel/Valencia at the end of October only for it to be replaced after Rotterdam in mid-February.

The case with Andy may seem extreme but that is because he only played 1 ATP 500 event in the first 8 months of the year. He already had one mandatory zero and would probably have picked up a second as even if fit I doubt he would have played Basel/Paris/WTF in successive weeks.

RJA · Hall of fame

On a more important note. Andy starts his campaign tomorrow evening, not before 18:30 GMT.

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

Nice to see Jamie sitting in on the coverage. Great guy.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Andy breaks for *2-1. ERV saved several break points in his two service games.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

First set to Andy 6-3 - 2 breaks.

I like the way ERV plays. Plenty of variety.

RJA · Hall of fame

Fairly good first set from Murray. But for a couple of sloppy points it could have been a breadstick but he will settle for 6-3.

-- Edited by RJA on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:43:11 PM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
Can somebody check my maths please.

If Andy wins the tournament, he will go back up to 4th in the rankings, overtaking Ferrer who isn't playing, and Del Potro who would drop at least 200 points if Andy wins.

After all the discussions on who will be where in the rankings if Andy wins the tournament, it appears that Sñr Ferrer has thrown another spanner in the works and has accepted a WC entry into the ATP 250 in Buenos Aires where he is the Top Seed.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch. Muzza is going well and now 3-0* up in the 2nd set.

Edit

I really should do my research before posting. It appears that Mr Ferrer won this tournament last year and is therefore defending the points. So anything other than a victory on his part will see his total fall back on the 24th Feb when last year's points come off.

-- Edited by Bob in Spain on Wednesday 12th of February 2014 07:47:16 PM

Armchair · County player

Well unless Andy had a meltdown he's in.

But I do love to watch the French players, they make it a joy to watch a match especially if they're losing to Andy !

RJA · Hall of fame

Bob in Spain wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Can somebody check my maths please.

If Andy wins the tournament, he will go back up to 4th in the rankings, overtaking Ferrer who isn't playing, and Del Potro who would drop at least 200 points if Andy wins.
After all the discussions on who will be where in the rankings if Andy wins the tournament, it appears that Sñr Ferrer has thrown another spanner in the works and has accepted a WC entry into the ATP 250 in Buenos Aires where he is the Top Seed.

I actually mentioned that in my initial reply to your question yesterday morning.

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Bob in Spain wrote:
Can somebody check my maths please.

If Andy wins the tournament, he will go back up to 4th in the rankings, overtaking Ferrer who isn't playing, and Del Potro who would drop at least 200 points if Andy wins.
After all the discussions on who will be where in the rankings if Andy wins the tournament, it appears that Sñr Ferrer has thrown another spanner in the works and has accepted a WC entry into the ATP 250 in Buenos Aires where he is the Top Seed.
I actually mentioned that in my initial reply to your question yesterday morning.

Oops. Can't see the wood for the trees. Got so lost in the complexities of the ATP Rules and the subsequent explanations, I clearly forgot to read the easy bits. Hangs head in shame. disbelief