Members Login
Username 
 
Password 
    Remember Me  
Post Info TOPIC: Battle for the top


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 34117
Date:
Battle for the top


People are, not surprisingly, starting to think about how soon Andy will have a chance to break into the top three. He can't quite do it (even theoretically) by the end of the year, though he could get very close in the unlikely event that he won everything and Nole didn't win another match, but obviously there is a theoretical chance that he could catch Nole by the time the AO ends.

I've put up a very basic table at http://www.britishtennis.net/top4.htm?n=1 based on the points all of the top 4 have to defend between now and the AO, which shows the position as it would be at the end of each week if none of them won another match, and this should make it easier to speculate on what could happen if they each reach various points in the tournaments to come- it shows how much Andy needs to outscore the other players to overtake them after taking into account points we know they all have to defend.

It is clear from that table that if Andy and Nole do equally well between now and the AO, then Andy winning the AO and Nole going out early would be enough, so obviously the better Andy does over the next few weeks (especially at Paris and the TMC) compared to Nole, the earlier Andy could go out of the AO (if Nole goes out early) or the longer Nole could last (if Andy does really well) for the positions still to be reversed.

The most likely way for Andy to make it into the top three would be if he did well at the AO, Nole failed to win it again and then Andy had a better clay court season than he did this year, so I'll extend the table and convert it to 2009 points nearer the end of the year when the 2009 ranking points system has been fully confirmed.


-- Edited by Madeline on Thursday 7th of August 2014 12:59:01 PM

__________________

GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 31117
Date:
RE: Battle for the top three


Very interesting, Steve, thanks for all that.

One other thing it does highlight is how much at serious rsk Federer is from Djokovic re the year end number 2 place.

However, I am not sure the real Djokovic is around at the moment to be able to take advantage of this.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 34117
Date:

I'm not sure either, but you're right - if Nole does better than Fed in Paris and at the TMC, he could be no. 2 for a couple of months.

__________________

GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 31117
Date:

You know with the run Andy has had since the Canada Masters, well if he can....

Keep it it going to the end of the year  ( in his current form, not an unreasonable thought )

Have a really good Aussie Open and American Spring ( unlike last year, but entirely possible, those surfaces should suit )

Have a much better clay court seaon ( well, it improved last year, OK over not very much, but I think it can and will improve again )

Get to at least the semis at Wimbledon (  at the moment I'd be disappointed if he didn't )

Get all his optionals restored (  OK, grasping for every point now smile  )

....are you dreaming what I'm dreaming ?    

Probably needs to win either the Aussie Open or Wimbledon  ( especially under the new proposed points system ), but..... 

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 34117
Date:

Updated to make it more accurate and to extend it up to Wimbledon 2009, by which time Andy can theoretically pass all of the other three if he outscores them in tournaments held between now and then! It'll be 'dynamically' updated as new points get added.

http://www.britishtennis.net/top4.htm?n=1


-- Edited by steven at 08:10, 2008-10-20

__________________

GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Admin:Moderator + All Time Great + britishtennis.net correspondant

Status: Offline
Posts: 11280
Date:

Fab stuff Steven.

__________________

BTnet logo



All-time great

Status: Offline
Posts: 7077
Date:

Cool - so he wins Wimbledon to become world number one...Easy!!

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 34117
Date:

LOL if only it were that simple! I think he's going to have trouble keeping up with Rafa during the clay season for a start. It's nice that it's theoretically possible 'just' by keeping pace with the rest for the next 8-9 months though isn't it.

Of course, looking ahead 12 months, anyone could become world no. 1, because all the points everyone has at the moment will be off by then. The thing that's special about Andy's ranking position at the moment though is that he has outscored everyone else in the world in the 3.5 months since Wimby.

-- Edited by steven at 14:23, 2008-10-20

__________________

GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 10121
Date:

How will points for the Davis Cup work? Is it only for the World Group? Will say all the points a player earns in a year in Davis Cup count as one tournament? I could have a million more questions but I think you get the picture.

__________________


Pro player

Status: Offline
Posts: 1114
Date:


This link explains it a bit. 

But it says it counts as one result.

http://atptennisnow.wordpress.com/2008/04/11/davis-cup-to-count-towards-rankings/

-- Edited by Akhenaten at 15:19, 2008-10-20

__________________


Pro player

Status: Offline
Posts: 1114
Date:


This is what it says on the Davis Cup pages. 

Sounds like its only for the World Group & the play-off round.

http://www.daviscup.com/news/newsarticle.asp?articleid=14562



South African Airlines ATP Ranking

Davis Cup will be awarded ranking points under the following structure:

a) Accumulated points over the preceding 52-week period for the 4 rounds of Davis Cup and the play-off round will count as one result. For 2009 onwards, this will be one of the tournaments in the new premium tier 500 category, the best of which count towards a players ranking.

b) Points will not be awarded for dead rubbers.

c) Players who dont play a round of matches will be awarded points based on the immediately preceding round (i.e. a player who doesnt play the first round but plays the second round will earn 40 points for each singles match won in that second round).

Singles Ranking Points

Points per live singles match


  Per Match WonPer Match Lost (1 per round)Team BonusPerformance BonusWins Cumulative
Playoff Round 5    
Playoff Round 10    
1st Round loss  10   
1st Round140   40
1st Round240   80
Quarterfinals365   145
Quarterfinals465   210
Semifinals570   280
Semifinals670   350
Final775   425
Final7  75* 500
Final875  125**625
  500   625


* Team bonus awarded to a singles player who wins 7 live matches and his team wins the competition

** Performance bonus awarded to a singles player who wins 8 live matches




-- Edited by Akhenaten at 15:19, 2008-10-20

-- Edited by Akhenaten at 15:21, 2008-10-20

__________________


Satellite level

Status: Offline
Posts: 1431
Date:

Time to apply for US citizenship, Andy.

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 31117
Date:

Ranking points for Davis Cup ?  My initial reaction was have they gone stark staring bonkers ?

I have though now read a bit, and do read they hope it might encourage more players to play Davis Cup. Also, it appears to be counted as for an "optional" 500 point tournament, so may be not that hugely significant.  But that is more with regards to the really top players, such as Andy now is.  Could be more significant for others.

Even for the top 4 players, though, if points are tight, it seems to me to be of  most advantage to Nadal, then possibly Federer, then Djokovic, and sorry, Andy.  Points, or rather the potential to be in a position to score points, being reliant on there being at least one other decent player from your country, hmm.

It just still strikes me as unfair, being clearly advantageos for players from countries that have other strong players and can make up a Davis Cup Team that advances through the rounds. 

I look forward to players such as Gulbis racking up some Davis Cup points, not, to help them advance up the rankings. On the other hand, I hear Stan Wawrinka thinks it is a cracking idea  wink.gif

Should there not be some sort of law against this ?  Like "Discrimination against good tennis players who come from otherwise crap tennis playing nations" ?

I am presuming there still won't be any ATP events clashing with the Davis Cup rounds, as that really would create a quabdry for some players.   But with this lot in charge, who knows ?!
 
Note to Steven :  I think I am now moving even further up that "farcical" scale with regards to ranking points.

-- Edited by indiana at 22:03, 2008-10-20

-- Edited by indiana at 22:49, 2008-10-20

-- Edited by indiana at 22:51, 2008-10-20

__________________


Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 34117
Date:

The QFs clash with Newport, but there are no other clashes with ATP events. However, the QFs, SFs and Final are now the week after Wimby, the USO and the WTF (new name for the TMC, clearly the markters didn't think through what the abbreviation for World Tour Finals would come out as! smile.gif) whereas there used to be a tournament week in between - that's probably an improvement though, because slam champions tend to pull out of tournaments the following week and not having a match until Friday if it's DC may mitigate that.

I'm a big fan of DC and doing more to get the top players to play in it, but awarding points for it doesn't rank highly on the fairness scale - I realise they only replace a '500' series tournament, but is it really going to make a difference to whether the big four play (4 weeks to amass the same points as for a medium level ATP, hmm) whereas it could cause distortions further down the rankings.

The players who are likely to gain the most are those in countries with successful teams but without huge competition for places. If the top players all play, those likely to benefit the most are players like Stani (as you pointed out) and Tipsy ... others likely to do well out of it are players like Numpty/Potty, Berdbrain/Count Duckula, Duckboy/Flake, Ivo/Cilic/Ancic, etc. The high-ranked players who will lose out will be French and Spanish players in the top 30 but not high-ranked enough to get into their team (though I guess at least they can feel like they can compete for places) and countries with only one player in the top 100, like GB, Sweden, Finland, Austria, Cyprus, Latvia, etc.

__________________

GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



Tennis legend

Status: Offline
Posts: 31117
Date:

Good points, Steven.

OK, I'll add :  "Discrimination against good tennis players, but not quite as good as a couple of my mates"   !

__________________
Page 1  >   Last »  sorted by
 
Quick Reply

Please log in to post quick replies.

Tweet this page Post to Digg Post to Del.icio.us


Create your own FREE Forum
Report Abuse
Powered by ActiveBoard