Unfair Play Sharron DAvies

emmsie69 · ATP level

Unfair Play Sharron DAvies

legaleagle · Improver

I see she's looking for any possible way to stem off that bankruptcy...

emmsie69 · ATP level

And if you read the book you'd understand why she is in that position.

emmsie69 · ATP level

Some resources for anyone interested in learning more about what is happening and how it impacts Women
FWIW I used to be in the 'Oh it's harmless and doesn't hurt anyone camp' Then about a year ago I and a friend had an experience in a Female changing room with an AGP Male followed by another one at work that slowly solidified me into an out and out TERF. I now have zero tolerance for any of it, no one can change Sex and the whole gender movement is regressive.
Women have spent decades trying to gain equality and now we are being told if we like certain thing or don't behave in a certain way, we are Trans. If I was growing up now I would 100% be transed by School and quite frankly, that is terrifying.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/how-the-public-sector-equality-duty-was-turned-against-women/
Trans by Helen Joyce
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
Time to Think by Hannah Barnes
Material Girls by Kathleen Stock

Lots of others out there, if you're lucky you might even find one in the Library if you look extra hard behind all the other books.

My guilty pleasure is a forum called Tattle, it has a bad rep but the Gender Discussion thread on there is an excellent resource (although we are all TERF's)

There is no balance to the books I've recommended because the other side of the issue has had plenty of airtime in the media, hence why people are so captured by this ideology.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

emmsie69 wrote:
Some resources for anyone interested in learning more about what is happening and how it impacts Women
FWIW I used to be in the 'Oh it's harmless and doesn't hurt anyone camp' Then about a year ago I and a friend had an experience in a Female changing room with an AGP Male followed by another one at work that slowly solidified me into an out and out TERF. I now have zero tolerance for any of it, no one can change Sex and the whole gender movement is regressive.
Women have spent decades trying to gain equality and now we are being told if we like certain thing or don't behave in a certain way, we are Trans. If I was growing up now I would 100% be transed by School and quite frankly, that is terrifying.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/how-the-public-sector-equality-duty-was-turned-against-women/
Trans by Helen Joyce
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
Time to Think by Hannah Barnes
Material Girls by Kathleen Stock

Lots of others out there, if you're lucky you might even find one in the Library if you look extra hard behind all the other books.

My guilty pleasure is a forum called Tattle, it has a bad rep but the Gender Discussion thread on there is an excellent resource (although we are all TERF's)

There is no balance to the books I've recommended because the other side of the issue has had plenty of airtime in the media, hence why people are so captured by this ideology.

thanks Emmsie - now you have got me lost in the alphabet soup!!

So - what is AGP??

What is a TERF??

What does Trans mean or transed? Do you mean transphobic? I thought Trans meant someone was transgender? But you dont mean that above??

Please be patient with a chap who has no idea (and by the way I am going to totally refuse to ever use the word cis to describe myself - what does cis even stand for, is it an acronym as well?)

Steve J · Lower Club Player

JonH comes home wrote:
what is AGP??
What is a TERF??

You are much better off not knowing what autogynephilia is .

TERF = trans exclusionary radial feminist. Coined as a derogatory term by trans rights activists (TRAs). It has been adopted by gender critical people (GC) in general.

The TRAs took cis from chemistry where is the opposite of trans.

-- Edited by Steve J on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 08:43:34 AM

Bob in Spain · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Some resources for anyone interested in learning more about what is happening and how it impacts Women
FWIW I used to be in the 'Oh it's harmless and doesn't hurt anyone camp' Then about a year ago I and a friend had an experience in a Female changing room with an AGP Male followed by another one at work that slowly solidified me into an out and out TERF. I now have zero tolerance for any of it, no one can change Sex and the whole gender movement is regressive.
Women have spent decades trying to gain equality and now we are being told if we like certain thing or don't behave in a certain way, we are Trans. If I was growing up now I would 100% be transed by School and quite frankly, that is terrifying.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/how-the-public-sector-equality-duty-was-turned-against-women/
Trans by Helen Joyce
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
Time to Think by Hannah Barnes
Material Girls by Kathleen Stock

Lots of others out there, if you're lucky you might even find one in the Library if you look extra hard behind all the other books.

My guilty pleasure is a forum called Tattle, it has a bad rep but the Gender Discussion thread on there is an excellent resource (although we are all TERF's)

There is no balance to the books I've recommended because the other side of the issue has had plenty of airtime in the media, hence why people are so captured by this ideology.
thanks Emmsie - now you have got me lost in the alphabet soup!!
So - what is AGP??
What is a TERF??
What does Trans mean or transed? Do you mean transphobic? I thought Trans meant someone was transgender? But you dont mean that above??
Please be patient with a chap who has no idea (and by the way I am going to totally refuse to ever use the word cis to describe myself - what does cis even stand for, is it an acronym as well?)

I had to go to Wiki before using it - just to be sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Steve J wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
what is AGP??
What is a TERF??
You are much better off not knowing what autogynephilia is .
TERF = trans exclusionary radial feminist. Coined as a derogatory term by trans rights activists (TRAs). It has been adopted by gender critical people (GC) in general.
The TRAs took cis from chemistry where is the opposite of trans.

-- Edited by Steve J on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 08:43:34 AM

Thanks Steve - and someone who is gender critical (GC) is someone who opposes the pro transmovement aims and ideals?

When Emmsie said being transed, what did that mean?!

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Bob in Spain wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
emmsie69 wrote:
Some resources for anyone interested in learning more about what is happening and how it impacts Women
FWIW I used to be in the 'Oh it's harmless and doesn't hurt anyone camp' Then about a year ago I and a friend had an experience in a Female changing room with an AGP Male followed by another one at work that slowly solidified me into an out and out TERF. I now have zero tolerance for any of it, no one can change Sex and the whole gender movement is regressive.
Women have spent decades trying to gain equality and now we are being told if we like certain thing or don't behave in a certain way, we are Trans. If I was growing up now I would 100% be transed by School and quite frankly, that is terrifying.

sex-matters.org/posts/updates/how-the-public-sector-equality-duty-was-turned-against-women/
Trans by Helen Joyce
Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez
Time to Think by Hannah Barnes
Material Girls by Kathleen Stock

Lots of others out there, if you're lucky you might even find one in the Library if you look extra hard behind all the other books.

My guilty pleasure is a forum called Tattle, it has a bad rep but the Gender Discussion thread on there is an excellent resource (although we are all TERF's)

There is no balance to the books I've recommended because the other side of the issue has had plenty of airtime in the media, hence why people are so captured by this ideology.
thanks Emmsie - now you have got me lost in the alphabet soup!!
So - what is AGP??
What is a TERF??
What does Trans mean or transed? Do you mean transphobic? I thought Trans meant someone was transgender? But you dont mean that above??
Please be patient with a chap who has no idea (and by the way I am going to totally refuse to ever use the word cis to describe myself - what does cis even stand for, is it an acronym as well?)

I had to go to Wiki before using it - just to be sure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

I get it but shan't be using it!!

Steve J · Lower Club Player

JonH comes home wrote:

Thanks Steve - and someone who is gender critical (GC) is someone who opposes the pro transmovement aims and ideals?

I would say that being gender critical means rejecting the idea that gender identity trumps sex (or rejecting the concept of gender identity).

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Steve J wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

Thanks Steve - and someone who is gender critical (GC) is someone who opposes the pro transmovement aims and ideals?
I would say that being gender critical means rejecting the idea that gender identity trumps sex (or rejecting the concept of gender identity).

ok, get that - thank you!! And thank you for bearing with me as I try and educate myself just a little!!

My daughter in fact as a syndrome which is regarded by some as being on the intersex spectrum - Turners Syndrome. It is a female only disorder that affects 1 in 2000 girls. A girl with Turners has 1 normal X chromosome instead of the usual 2. My daughter is mosaic in about 33% of her cells, so two thirds are normal XX. It impacts some girls who have it in a variety of ways, from fertility, through heart conditions, through height - height being the most visual. My daughter being mosaic doesnt seem to be impacted majorly (nothing has come up although she is checked regularly and, indeed, is going for a heart scan today) but she is shorter than our family generally is at 5 feet 3 inches. Which isnt abnormally short generally. Many Turners women max at around 4ft 11/12 type height.

According to the Intersex Society of America "When mosaic Turner Syndrome occurs, the person usually doesnt have all the associated signs of TS, and may have other signs of intersex. "

My daughter has no signs at all of any intersex characteristics and is most definitely a girl/female (a woman now , she is 21) and is the most girly girl you could meet in many ways - very feminine, pretty and lovely all round, but as her Dad I would say that!!!

Vhughes · Social player

Our daughter has Mosaic Turners too and has successfully had a gorgeous little boy by ivf!

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Vhughes wrote:
Our daughter has Mosaic Turners too and has successfully had a gorgeous little boy by ivf!

Fabulous to hear, Vanessa, you must be very proud!!!

I think a lot of people have Turners and never know , or at least dont know until they come to try to have children. We find ourselves looking at shorter women and can usually identify people we think might have Turners, but with Mosaic , like our daughters, the outside appearance is often not visible to be able to tell.

congrats on your grandson!

emmsie69 · ATP level

Being GC doesn't mean we hate Trans and want them dead, it just means that we believe in Biology and that no one can change their sex. Somehow saying that became hate speech. I am not a Woman because of how I feel, think, dress, look etc, I am a Woman because I have 2 x chromosomes. the Trans movement is incredibly regressive and mysogynistic.
I was piqued/peaked last year when I had a couple of run ins with 2 older TiM, 1 of them in a Female changing room, the other at work which led me to look far deeper into the Trans movement and to be frank, it is very disturbing. Twitter and the Media have done an amazing job of keeping the truth hidden, it's only now that Elon Musk is in charge that GC posters can actually post Trans stuff, previously it would all be taken down and they would be banned for hate speech.
TiM and TiF are driven by different things, an awful lot of the Women are young and have had some kind of trauma that leads them to try to opt out of Womanhood, an awful lot of the Men are AGPs, that is dressing like a Woman and entering Female spaces gives them a Sexual thrill.
Historically there were circa 5000 Transexuals, the vast majority of them Men(Transexuals have surgery) in the UK, they had to jump through hoops to get their GRA, they also recognised that they were still Male. This number stayed remarkably constant for 50 years

People use the argument that it doesn't hurt anyone else if an individual wants to present as the opposite Sex but it takes opportunity away from Women and it puts Women and Children's safety at risk.
Obviously most of us have now heard of Lia Thomas, not only did Lia steal a Woman's place on the team but when they dead heated with Riley Gaines, they got the trophy and Riley got nothing. When the female students complained about having to share a locker room with a Man who had not had any surgery, they were told to shut up or lose their place on the swimming team.
As for all the most marginalised in society garbage, Afghan Women say Hi as do Women and Children that have been trafficked for Sex and countless other genuinely marginalised groups. The fact that a movement predominately consisting of privileged western, white Men has managed to centre themselves as the most marginalised in society is testament to their power.
Anyway thanks to anyone on here who is actually prepared to research this in depth rather than just listen to soundbites and abuse those of us that believe that Sex matters not gender.

ETA In light of the 2 posters above I'll clarify that I am a Woman because I don't have a y chromosome not because I have 2 xx chromosomes. It's probably more scientifically accurate anyway

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 07:58:11 PM

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 08:03:18 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

emmsie69 wrote:
Being GC doesn't mean we hate Trans and want them dead, it just means that we believe in Biology and that no one can change their sex. Somehow saying that became hate speech. I am not a Woman because of how I feel, think, dress, look etc, I am a Woman because I have 2 x chromosomes. the Trans movement is incredibly regressive and mysogynistic.
I was piqued/peaked last year when I had a couple of run ins with 2 older TiM, 1 of them in a Female changing room, the other at work which led me to look far deeper into the Trans movement and to be frank, it is very disturbing. Twitter and the Media have done an amazing job of keeping the truth hidden, it's only now that Elon Musk is in charge that GC posters can actually post Trans stuff, previously it would all be taken down and they would be banned for hate speech.
TiM and TiF are driven by different things, an awful lot of the Women are young and have had some kind of trauma that leads them to try to opt out of Womanhood, an awful lot of the Men are AGPs, that is dressing like a Woman and entering Female spaces gives them a Sexual thrill.
Historically there were circa 5000 Transexuals, the vast majority of them Men(Transexuals have surgery) in the UK, they had to jump through hoops to get their GRA, they also recognised that they were still Male. This number stayed remarkably constant for 50 years

People use the argument that it doesn't hurt anyone else if an individual wants to present as the opposite Sex but it takes opportunity away from Women and it puts Women and Children's safety at risk.
Obviously most of us have now heard of Lia Thomas, not only did Lia steal a Woman's place on the team but when they dead heated with Riley Gaines, they got the trophy and Riley got nothing. When the female students complained about having to share a locker room with a Man who had not had any surgery, they were told to shut up or lose their place on the swimming team.
As for all the most marginalised in society garbage, Afghan Women say Hi as do Women and Children that have been trafficked for Sex and countless other genuinely marginalised groups. The fact that a movement predominately consisting of privileged western, white Men has managed to centre themselves as the most marginalised in society is testament to their power.
Anyway thanks to anyone on here who is actually prepared to research this in depth rather than just listen to soundbites and abuse those of us that believe that Sex matters not gender.
ETA In light of the 2 posters above I'll clarify that I am a Woman because I don't have a y chromosome not because I have 2 xx chromosomes. It's probably more scientifically accurate anyway

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 07:58:11 PM

-- Edited by emmsie69 on Wednesday 9th of August 2023 08:03:18 PM

Thanks for this Emmsie and Im learning a lot and will re read to take it in. I will raise a point though and Id like your considered opinion. And remember I think Im largely on your side of this debate!

you say above you are a woman because you have 2 X chromosomes. My daughter (and Vanessa above) have Turners Syndrome daughters . Both Of our daughters are what is called mosaic, which means single x in some chromosomes. In my dlaughters case, single X in one third. Only girls have Turners, not boys. And Turners girls are definitely female, women. My daughter is a beautiful woman in every way; Vanessas daughter has had a baby boy. But neither has 2 X chromosomes , some X are single.

so is saying youre a woman due to having 2X chromosomes incorrect or simplifying it? Whats your view on that and our daughters who are Turners? Im not trying to argue , and hope you dont come back and say they arent women, but Im hoping it is not so simple as 2X is the only answer because it clearly is a little more complex than that.

thank You for listening and hopefully a considered response !