Rich2310 wrote:

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However you look at it this is just a really poor result for the British women's game. To have nobody in the first round feels depressing as much as we support them all. You have to wonder if there were no wild cards handed out for Wimbledon just how many would get through qualifying there. Something really needs to change.

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 Couldn't agree more. In fact I'd say really poor doesn't do it justice.

Not only is this first time since 2008 we've not got any one into the first round proper we have not even got anyone through to final qualifying and this just happens to coincide with the fact that we also don't currently have any top 100 players. Add to that we can't keep many of our top players fit for very long.

A lot needs to change from fitness regimes through to commitment and proper training on all surfaces.  How many top level clay courts are there in the country? Genuine question. We probably need sports psychologists on hand as well. Look at the difference one really good one made to Jo Konta for eg.

We need to break the cycle of negativity about our women not being able to play on clay. You really can't have a very successful consistent and long lived top 100 career if you can only basically play well on grass for 6 weeks a season. We also need to drop the argument that "well we've never really had that many top players so what we have now is pretty good".

But you can bet we won't do anything other than blithely hand out wild cards to players who frankly don't always deserve it rather than rewarding genuine progress.

Yes it is just one tournament but this combined with not having any top 100 player and the general demise and poor performances at the top of the British women's game this year and for some time really, with one or two exceptions, should be a massive wake up call to all those involved in women's tennis in this country but I'm guessing it won't be.

We move onto the grass and I hope our women do well but I want to see them earn the right to do well rather than just be handed positions and the money that goes with it. Surbiton starts on the 4th June and if I was the Wimbledon organisers I'd be saying we expect all these women who've just lost in Paris to compete and the one who does best will get a MD wild card. The others maybe not.

Coup Droit wrote:

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It's a good discussion, foobarbaz

But I don't agree that clay is about power.

Clay is about technique, and point construction, and top spin, and endurance/tenacity,

Players like Errani can do really well on clay, without any power.

Players like Serena with all the power in the world struggled to get her game to adapt to clay.

No one hits through you more on clay than they do on hard/grass - just look at the stats for rally length

And a lot of players never grew up on clay.

Hardly any US players use clay.

Neither do over half of France (it's a major headache for the FFT - I've sat in countless meetings about it)

There's no reason our players shouldn't be adept on clay - quite a lot of them spend time in Spain (or Florida academies with clay on offer) or wherever - the NTC has clay courts for practice - its a myth that our players have so much less time on clay than other countries (apart from a few obvious countries like Spain)

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 24th of May 2023 07:07:57 PM

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The US players may not play on clay so much, but they do play in slow conditions, of abrasive hard court surface and high humidity.

That's another thing we see little of in this country, high humidity. Anything that slows the ball down, is generally not found here.

Just look at how painfully slow the play was in the Miami Open, this year, with ralllies going on and on and on.

Even at Indian Wells where the humidity in the desert is much lower, all the talk was of the surface being way too abrasive, and that the balance in tennis conditions had swung too much in one direction.

Don't forget that Swan qualified at Indian Wells, but at Miami a fortnight later couldn't get the ball past a skilful but ultimately defensive player. (OK she was also carrying an injury that hampered her serve, but still)

Two years ago Swan also played sparkling tennis to qualify at Wimbledon, and last year most of our GB players played well and won lots on home soil.

The media companies have played a role in all this, they want extended rallies, and to hell with injured players.

As for our players practicising on clay, well it's just not the same as competitive matchplay. It's shot selection in the heat of battle that counts, and clay court specialist players, know instinctively what shots to play and when.

And it's being caught between a rock and a hard place, because if you change your game to play on clay, then that will carry on into your grass court game and you may become less effective on your favooured surface.

Take all this bunkum with a pinch of salt, that's the wonder of tennis, everyone see's it differently.

JonH comes home wrote:

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The thing is it can be done. Cam has learnt to play clay and seen rewards this season with an ATP 500 title and a 250 this time last year; Dan has found a way to win on clay, did well in Monte Carlo a couple of years back and got to Barcelona and Marakech semis this season. And Jack D is going well this week in his first event back.

Andy won a Davis cup final on clay specially laid to favour the opposing team.

So our men do it and find a way to learn how to combat and play well on surfaces that arent their favoured ones.

Thats about court craft, attitude, tactical nous, having a secure base game to fall back on. I sometimes wonder if those are all things missing from many of our womens players - Ill count Emma out for now and also Fran- and there is a basic fragility to their games that falls apart under pressure.

I have no idea but have always wondered it.

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Dan is 33, he's had time to develop his game, and he's an amazingly skilful player, but he's not had the best of luck on clay over the years, right?

I watched with the nation, a Davis Cup match where Fognini made Andy Murray (well before his op) look really clueless on clay.

The men have the explosive power, that still enables them to run the opponent about.

The elite womens players, the 'early' years 18-23 are mostly about trying to build the physique, and basic shot-making to compete on the international circuit. Playing skills are developed after that, it seems to me.

Joanna Konta, built up her fitness and physique to a high level, and transitioned to a gung-ho power game of hitting the hide off the ball at every shot. When she was playing well, she had success, and she was a brilliant player and team leader for GB. A lot of times though she hit the ball long and was infuriating to watch. It was only later that she started to employ the cross court drop shot, though it was just a dunk with no action on, and often the opponent had time to get to it.