Boys: 2023 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: Boys: 2023 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

Tennis_observer · Social player

I can recommend using myutr.com when discussing ranking.

This ranking system is by far the most mathematically correct ranking in tennis.
LTA ranking and ITF ranking are not useful to really determine skill level compared to UTR ranking system.

UTR factors in the last 30 matches and weekly adjust your rating based on your own results and opponents recent results. It also does not use matches for ranking if a players ranking is way above or below the opponents ranking, since it is assumed the match-up it too uneven.
It also factors in percentage won in a match, so if a player has UTR rating 11 and loses to a player UTR rating 12, score is 6-7 6-7, the player with the lower UTR has actually performed above expected in regards to the UTR rating.

Personally I read along in the forum, and whenever there is a discussion about players ranking/rating, I can only recommend referring to UTR, since it is honestly beyond good to evaluate players level.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
twentytoone wrote:
Ben beat oli bonding about a month back at the 18u county cup so I think Ben could probably beat him and at there best I think Ben still does
Makes it interesting - I see Ben is in the 18's field as well next week.
This is all assuming, of course, that Ben and Oli win their next matches - otherwise they'll be no re-match, come what may
Re rankings, I was talking about ITF rankings, which is what most people follow

cool - how do the seedings work here then, given Mark is seeded and Zech wasnt? Not on ITF obviously?

Tennis_observer · Social player

LTA ranking is based on LTA tournament results, ITF results, Tennis Europe results and ATP results
Mark has been doing really well in Tennis Europe tournaments, and therefore have accrued more points in the LTA ranking system

myutr has the following rating:

Mark Ceban 10.80
Zecharia 11.24

That roughly means Zecharia was 60% favourite in today's match up.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 12:23:17 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Tennis_observer wrote:
LTA ranking is based on LTA tournament results, ITF results, Tennis Europe results and ATP results
Mark has been doing really well in Tennis Europe tournaments, and therefore have accrued more points in the LTA ranking system

myutr has the following rating:

Mark Ceban 10.80
Zecharia 11.24

That roughly means Zecharia was 60% favourite in today's match up.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 12:23:17 PM

thanks Tennis Observer, that is really interesting.

Does myUTR align closely with some of the ELO style systems (more for the pros?) that sites like Tennis Abstract use (Jeff Sackmann)? Would you expect those to create similarly structured lists?

Tennis_observer · Social player

myutr covers pros as well, and is very accurate for pros as well.
The formula has been developed by 2 Harvard professors, and have different parameters to look at, if you wanna dig a bit deeper in the numbers (guess what, I like that )

Clearly some elements of ELO style systems, but since the formula is not shared, I cant 100% confirm how they do it.

On a sidenote, UTR rating is the ONLY thing US collegees look at, when they offer scholarships. If you have a decent UTR rating within your peer group, you are potentially on their radar.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 04:05:27 PM

Lambda · Challenger level

Tennis_observer wrote:

myutr covers pros as well, and is very accurate for pros as well.
The formula has been developed by 2 Harvard professors, and have different parameters to look at, if you wanna dig a bit deeper in the numbers (guess what, I like that )

Clearly some elements of ELO style systems, but since the formula is not shared, I cant 100% confirm how they do it.

On a sidenote, UTR rating is the ONLY thing US collegees look at, when they offer scholarships. If you have a decent UTR rating within your peer group, you are potentially on their radar.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 02:59:36 PM

I thought they had dropped UTR for the WTN?

Tennis_observer · Social player

Who are 'they'?

I am only referring to UTR as the best rating system, not about who is using it.
LTA uses their own ranking system, as described above.

Dont get me started on WTN :)).. the number has zero validity, and the formula behind are weighing the parameters in a complete illogical way.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 07:22:17 PM

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 08:07:05 PM

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Tennis_observer wrote:
myutr covers pros as well, and is very accurate for pros as well.
The formula has been developed by 2 Harvard professors, and have different parameters to look at, if you wanna dig a bit deeper in the numbers (guess what, I like that )

Clearly some elements of ELO style systems, but since the formula is not shared, I cant 100% confirm how they do it.

On a sidenote, UTR rating is the ONLY thing US collegees look at, when they offer scholarships. If you have a decent UTR rating within your peer group, you are potentially on their radar.

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 04:05:27 PM

I think Tennis Abstract does publish their/his rating system, so I will check it out and send a link on here.

Presumably this is the LTA Ranking system that the boys and girls seedings here for the 16's is based on

https://competitions.lta.org.uk/ranking/category.aspx?id=33925&category=4548

Zech doesnt even seem to appear in this ranking list?!

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 04:22:06 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The National Championship U16 doubles final will be:

Max Carrier & Mark Ceban v Felix Bockelmann-Evans & Ferran Redza

(Oli Bonding didn't go in for the doubles, and Ben Gusic Wan played with Joe Mazingham and lost first round)

Tennis_observer · Social player

Just to be clear, no governing body in tennis is using UTR, because they could not reach an agreement.
But UTR rating is by far the best ranking/rating system to use, if you want to compare players, NOTHING comes close in my opinion.

Toby · Lower Club Player

What times are the u16 singles finals on Friday?

Tennis_observer · Social player

UTR prediction for one of tomorrows matches:

Ben Gusic Wan 12.39
Zecharia 11.25 (notice his rating was adjusted today by 0.01, compared to my previous post, due to opponents movement in rating)

I would predict Ben is 75%-85% favourite and should take 70%+ of the total games played in the match, let's see tomorrow.

Disclaimer: obviously this doesn't always work, but very often it does......

-- Edited by Tennis_observer on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 08:11:34 PM

twentytoone · Intermediate Club Player

Anyone know why the matches havent started. Rain delay ?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

It's pretty damp in London at the moment. Not raining as such. But spitting, and I think courts would be very slippery.

It threatens to clear up and then fails.....

They've played the indoor matches and I was guessing they were waiting to see if it got better and so they could do the outside ones as planned.

But there will come a time soon where they'll just have to go ahead with them inside.