Girls: 2023 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: Girls: 2023 U16/U18 Junior National Championships, NTC, acrylic (Weeks 14/15)

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Shhh wrote:
The automatic line calls we see in big tournaments now, how expensive would this be to install on a few courts to be used throughout the year for tournaments such as this? It is out National Tennis Centre after all. I am not talking big screens for replays, just the system in place on the court? The cost must be falling all the time so, I am sure it is still expensive but the profits that Wimbeldon hands over are massive.
I was thinking this too - after all, it would be good practice for the players, too, to play with that system. It would get rid of ALL controversies. And it would valorise the competition - the kids would be hyped to be playing with it.
However, if the LTA can't even run to paying for umpires (or calling in favours and using willing free umpires), then I guess they're not going to push the boat out for automatic line calls.

do British Tour events have umpires ? I imagine they dont whereas Im guessing UKPL will have umpires and some line judges?

professionalism lacking?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:
Shhh wrote:
The automatic line calls we see in big tournaments now, how expensive would this be to install on a few courts to be used throughout the year for tournaments such as this? It is out National Tennis Centre after all. I am not talking big screens for replays, just the system in place on the court? The cost must be falling all the time so, I am sure it is still expensive but the profits that Wimbeldon hands over are massive.
I was thinking this too - after all, it would be good practice for the players, too, to play with that system. It would get rid of ALL controversies. And it would valorise the competition - the kids would be hyped to be playing with it.
However, if the LTA can't even run to paying for umpires (or calling in favours and using willing free umpires), then I guess they're not going to push the boat out for automatic line calls.
do British Tour events have umpires ? I imagine they dont whereas Im guessing UKPL will have umpires and some line judges?
professionalism lacking?

It's not always a question of professionalism, to be fair.

It's expensive to employ umpires. The first two days, especially, say, you've got a lot of matches to get through. The rules are (or were) that you can't have just a few umpired - either all or none. To be fair. (Although I think you can bring in umpires at a specific round, as long as everyone at that round gets one, i.e. at semis level). And so if they had to employ umpires for all those matches, in R1 say, the costs may well mean the events were not feasible.

PS This doesn't apply to National Championships, of course

-- Edited by Coup Droit on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 07:28:34 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Just to add, yes, the UTR events have umpires.

But, to the best of my knowledge, the only reason they can afford them is because of their links to betting sites. Umpires are needed for point scoring, which is needed for betting. All the UTR and Pro League matches are available on all the betting sites.

So maybe be pleased, Jon, that British Tour don't go down that route?

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
Just to add, yes, the UTR events have umpires.

But, to the best of my knowledge, the only reason they can afford them is because of their links to betting sites. Umpires are needed for point scoring, which is needed for betting. All the UTR and Pro League matches are available on all the betting sites.

So maybe be pleased, Jon, that British Tour don't go down that route?

yes, that is a fair point! I hadnt realised UTR (is that the Progress Tour in the UK?) was backed by the betting sites, presumably explains the big money they offer

Lambda · Challenger level

From memory last year I vaguely recall there was an umpire and linesperson from the SFs.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I remember way back in the early 90's, I played in a local league in Greenford area in Middlesex. I lived down there at the time. They had an annual tournament among players from clubs in the area, which dragged through the season (you had to organise and play a round by a certain date) but all culminated in a finals day. One season I got to the mixed doubles final with my partner, played a blinder and won, but that had an umpire and a couple of line judges for the service line and side line.

They were just local volunteers of course but it helped a lot and also, as an experience, made it much better and more memorable/special

Spireman · Club Coach

Previously they have had a chair umpire and one line judge, who moved to call serve and side line away from umpire, from sf onwards, when held in Nottingham, each 2019. I'm fairly sure they had a chair umpire for all main draw matches when u16 and u18 nationals were at Surbiton 2 years ago. Also those lta return to elite competition tournaments that were at ntc in 2021 all had a chair umpire for all matches. No one agrees with all their calls but in theory same for both players, and especially good for calling serves where honest returners don't usually call enough out in my experience. Players, coaches, parents invest a lot of time, effort and funds in tennis so for nationals to not have an umpire at least in all main draw matches is a disgrace. We've all seen the players where the back of the line ball or even further in that that is called out. Particularly on certain scores....With rewards like wimbledon wc of various sorts on offer there is a lot at stake. Not good enough to have umpires only for sf and final...a potential winner could easily lose a close match in earlier rounds due to line calls. We know its not just the point, or game lost, but effect on emotions and next points and games.

-- Edited by Spireman on Wednesday 5th of April 2023 09:47:10 AM

Mr Gib · Improver

Coup Droit wrote:
Mr Gib wrote:
Thanks For the explaination. I think I am just surprised that the premier National has a field of 44. Its not a very big pool.
Yes, but you don't want a huge range in level - it means there are lots of meaningless matches which are dispiriting for the weaker players and a waste of time for the better players.
So, IMO, a feed-up system is best, where just the higher ranked players are in the main draw, with qualis for the other spots - AS LONG AS it's accessible to everyone to get the ranking points necessary to actually be one of those higher ranked players.
Understood. The key is the AS LONG AS. Scottish or Welsh based British Tours seem to be the key for the requisite points. Happy to be proved wrong and now probably will be but maybe they could then have saved time by the two Hs having a play off.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

All credit to Lois Newberry who has come out nicely pumped up, playing energetic tennis

And has taken the first set off Hep, 6-4

Lois, I believe, gets zero help from the LTA (because she didn't want to go to one of the academies at age 11).

Seems a little harsh. Her tennis doesn't stand out majorly (IMO) but she's certainly one of the better players for her age and is very serious about her tennis, wants to go pro, etc. Yet another 'our way or the highway' from the LTA, seemingly

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

that is a turn up for the books so far, Hep is top seed as well, isnt she?

I noticed Flora J lost the opener 6-0 to Mika - not sure how expected that would be?

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Gosh, Hep played a very lacklustre, flat match

She was beaten 4-6 2-6

Don't know what was going on in her head.

All credit to Lois, though - as said above, a nice, dynamic match, showing serious intent and application, and no am-drams

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

2008-born Tegan Bush has beaten 2007-born Ciara Moore so Tegan will (probably) play Hannah in the semi

And the other semi is Mika v Lois

LordBrownof · Futures level

The last few months for Hep have been worrying. She seems to have stalled quite abruptly.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

LordBrownof wrote:
The last few months for Hep have been worrying. She seems to have stalled quite abruptly.

Do you reckon? But she just did really well, making the finals of the J200 event - and cracking the top-60 in ITF rankings. I would have said that was doing good smile

BUT it was a really weird perfromance today....... 'if I can't win easily, I don't want to have to work for it' sort of performance