Greatest Players of All Time - according to Tennis Abstract

GAMEOVER · Pro player

RE: Greatest Players of All Time - according to Tennis Abstract

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

I think getting to be ELO number one counted a lot in the algorithm, not many players have topped the list , maybe 20 or so men? Tom did it in 1974 in a very strong tennis era - mid 70s was what I would say was one of the best , maybe the best.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Number 98 is Zina Garrison

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/14/the-tennis-128-no-98-zina-garrison/

Again, no grand slam wins to her name.

Id love to know the algorithm in this, clearly slams are relatively small aspect although they will align at the top end I suspect with ELO ratings quite closely.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

At 97 its Frank Parker , a 30s and 40s player who won 4 slams

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/16/the-tennis-128-no-97-frank-parker/

GAMEOVER · Pro player

JonH comes home wrote:
At 97 its Frank Parker , a 30s and 40s player who won 4 slams

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/16/the-tennis-128-no-97-frank-parker/

Yes he won the French twice after the war but his two US Championships were won during the war in small fields of 32 and 48. Most of the players were from the USA. Not sure how that is rated.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

GAMEOVER wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
At 97 its Frank Parker , a 30s and 40s player who won 4 slams

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/16/the-tennis-128-no-97-frank-parker/
Yes he won the French twice after the war but his two US Championships were won during the war in small fields of 32 and 48. Most of the players were from the USA. Not sure how that is rated.

A specific players ELO is calculated by taking the ELO of each opponent at the time you play them and your subsequent result. So player strength is a key part of the assessment. jeff Sackman has an ELO for every player that has played the sport at top level and for every match thats been recorded . His database is vast.

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Jon, we have no. 96 in the greatest players and it is a player of recent times in Elena Dementieva. Many career highlights including 2 Grand Slam singles finals and the Olympic Gold medal at Beijing 2008. She had match points against Serena Williams at Wimbledon 2009 semi final..

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

GAMEOVER wrote:
Jon, we have no. 96 in the greatest players and it is a player of recent times in Elena Dementieva. Many career highlights including 2 Grand Slam singles finals and the Olympic Gold medal at Beijing 2008. She had match points against Serena Williams at Wimbledon 2009 semi final..

Thanks Gameover! Ive been working like today is Monday all day and lost track of this!

https://www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/19/the-tennis-128-no-96-elena-dementieva/

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

One of my favourite players of all time

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/21/the-tennis-128-no-95-vitas-gerulaitis/

Who hasnt seen a recording of the Borg versus Gerulaitus Wimbledon semi epic, played in many of the rain stoppages we see during the fortnight, at least once a year!

Vitas of course won his one GS title beating John Lloyd in the AO final way back in 1977 (from memory), one of two AO's played that year when the event swapped from January to December (before later switching back again)

GAMEOVER · Pro player

Jon we have no. 94 and it is a British star of the 20's in Kitty Godfree.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Thanks Gameover.

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/23/the-tennis-128-no-94-kitty-mckane-godfree/

I just love the write up Jeff does, he clearly researches well and writes well to make the story really interesting

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Thanks Gameover.

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/23/the-tennis-128-no-94-kitty-mckane-godfree/

I just love the write up Jeff does, he clearly researches well and writes well to make the story really interesting

I realise now we will see Suzanne Lenglen in the top 10 somewhere

steven · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
Thanks Gameover.

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/23/the-tennis-128-no-94-kitty-mckane-godfree/

I just love the write up Jeff does, he clearly researches well and writes well to make the story really interesting

Yes, I dread to think how many player biographies he has read / has on his shelves, and it became clear last year that he was spending lots of time going through old newspaper archives too - I think that was mainly to try to add results from pre-Open era tournaments but it clearly inspired this too, or maybe he always intended to do this right from the start.

Like you, I'm pretty sure Suzanne Lenglen will be in the overall top 10 (and, I would guess, the highest-ranked pre-WW2 player on his list).

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

steven wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
Thanks Gameover.

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/23/the-tennis-128-no-94-kitty-mckane-godfree/

I just love the write up Jeff does, he clearly researches well and writes well to make the story really interesting
Yes, I dread to think how many player biographies he has read / has on his shelves, and it became clear last year that he was spending lots of time going through old newspaper archives too - I think that was mainly to try to add results from pre-Open era tournaments but it clearly inspired this too, or maybe he always intended to do this right from the start.
Like you, I'm pretty sure Suzanne Lenglen will be in the overall top 10 (and, I would guess, the highest-ranked pre-WW2 player on his list).

In terms of the top 10, I expect 5 women and 5 men. The womens strike me as Lenglen, Court, Navratilova , Graf and Serena Williams. The men is much more open - our current big 3 , Sampras, Borg, Laver , Rosewall, and perhaps room for a Pancho Gonzalez, Jack Kramer and or Bill Tilden if he rates pre open pro tennis highly , which is algorithm should do. But 5 men from those ten I would guess at.

but it is a fascinating process and run down!

GAMEOVER · Pro player

JonH comes home wrote:
steven wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
Thanks Gameover.

www.tennisabstract.com/blog/2022/04/23/the-tennis-128-no-94-kitty-mckane-godfree/

I just love the write up Jeff does, he clearly researches well and writes well to make the story really interesting
Yes, I dread to think how many player biographies he has read / has on his shelves, and it became clear last year that he was spending lots of time going through old newspaper archives too - I think that was mainly to try to add results from pre-Open era tournaments but it clearly inspired this too, or maybe he always intended to do this right from the start.
Like you, I'm pretty sure Suzanne Lenglen will be in the overall top 10 (and, I would guess, the highest-ranked pre-WW2 player on his list).
In terms of the top 10, I expect 5 women and 5 men. The womens strike me as Lenglen, Court, Navratilova , Graf and Serena Williams. The men is much more open - our current big 3 , Sampras, Borg, Laver , Rosewall, and perhaps room for a Pancho Gonzalez, Jack Kramer and or Bill Tilden if he rates pre open pro tennis highly , which is algorithm should do. But 5 men from those ten I would guess at.

but it is a fascinating process and run down!

Jon re the top 5 women there is an argument for Maureen Connolly to be there. Here career was short and after winning the 1951 US Championships she never lost in a singles match at a Slam tournament. She also won the Singles Grand Slam in 1953. Between the 2 World Wars there was also Helen Wills Moody. It will be interesting to note who he rates better of Jones or Wade. I would go for Jones but Wade has the advantage of the spread of titles won at Grand Slams. Court should be devalued because of the quality of some of her opponents in her Australian championships wins . Might be devalued for other reasons as well. What about Billie Jean King or Chris Evert? Re the men Rosewall scores because of longevity. Lew Hoad would have done the Grand Slam in 1956 if he had not been frustrated by Rosewall at the US Championships. There's also Don Budge before the war who did the Grand Slam. Agree with your comment about being fascinating.

-- Edited by GAMEOVER on Saturday 23rd of April 2022 05:59:54 PM