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Post Info TOPIC: 2022 Rankings


Tennis legend

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RE: 2022 Rankings


It's a great achievement for Ella to be top-10, and I'm a big fan

But there's a BIG caveat.

Namely if you look at the number of tournaments played, the top-10 list goes like this:

1 - 16
2 - 20
3 - 17
4 - 20
5 - 26
6 - 18
7 - 25
8 - 7
9 - 34
10 - 8


So, Ella has played 34 events - the rest of the girls have barely played over 20

(Now, there are some girls lower down the ranks who've played even more than Ella, hers is not off the scale, but it is a LOT more than the others in the top 10, and does obviously rather water down the strength of her ranking) 



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Nix


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Coup Droit wrote:

It's a great achievement for Ella to be top-10, and I'm a big fan

But there's a BIG caveat.

Namely if you look at the number of tournaments played, the top-10 list goes like this:

1 - 16
2 - 20
3 - 17
4 - 20
5 - 26
6 - 18
7 - 25
8 - 7
9 - 34
10 - 8


So, Ella has played 34 events - the rest of the girls have barely played over 20

(Now, there are some girls lower down the ranks who've played even more than Ella, hers is not off the scale, but it is a LOT more than the others in the top 10, and does obviously rather water down the strength of her ranking) 


I had a quick look at Ella's record to see whether she'd been playing lower level tournament, hence the number of tournaments overall. But it seems like she's only played 17 singles tournaments this year. I wonder if the total number of tournaments includes the number of doubles tournaments as well, of which she's also played 17. Perhaps other players don't play so many doubles tournaments? Or it could be that I've got the figures wrong, or misunderstood something, which I'm definitely prone to do.  



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Does it water down her ranking though? Sure, she isn't the 9th best junior eligible girl in the world this year as there are other juniors, Eala being a notable one, that would have ranked higher than her had they not left juniors behind to focus on the Pro tour. That's just the nature of junior rankings, but I don't need to tell you (CD) that as you already know better than most.

Most of the top 10 play only the Junior Slams and high profile JA tournaments. If you look at those ranked 11 to 20 they've got 34, 24, 30, 36, 39, 38, 24, 4, 20, 25 singles and doubles counters respectively, which in the main is not too dissimilar to Ella. A lot of the top 10s counters came at the beginning of the year, and aside from the USO many haven't played on the Junior tour since Roland Garros. All the top 10, except Ella, ended last year in the top 100, 8 of those 9 ended last year in the top 50.

Ella, on the other hand, was outside the top 200. Her ranking at the beginning of the year wasn't high enough to get her into those big tournaments so she had to play a lot of J2s and J1s at the beginning of the year to get into the big tournaments in the 2nd half of the year. Only 2 of Ella's countable counters come from before Wimbledon. So Ella's first half of the season was to improve her ranking to get into the big tournaments and the second half to get the ranking points from those big tournaments that have put her in the top 10.

So i don't think that she has played more waters down her ranking is the right conclusion to draw. Its not that her ranking is from having many more attempts to get ranking points at the big tournaments than the rest of the top 10, its that she had to play more (at a lower level) as she was coming from a very different place than the others.

Coming from outside the top 200 to the top 10 in 12 months is a mega achievement. I accept some of that climb is assisted by no longer eligible players being removed at the end of last year, but it is still a mega achievement. biggrin

-- Edited by Lambda on Tuesday 27th of December 2022 08:06:33 AM

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Nix wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

It's a great achievement for Ella to be top-10, and I'm a big fan

But there's a BIG caveat.

Namely if you look at the number of tournaments played, the top-10 list goes like this:

1 - 16
2 - 20
3 - 17
4 - 20
5 - 26
6 - 18
7 - 25
8 - 7
9 - 34
10 - 8


So, Ella has played 34 events - the rest of the girls have barely played over 20

(Now, there are some girls lower down the ranks who've played even more than Ella, hers is not off the scale, but it is a LOT more than the others in the top 10, and does obviously rather water down the strength of her ranking) 


I had a quick look at Ella's record to see whether she'd been playing lower level tournament, hence the number of tournaments overall. But it seems like she's only played 17 singles tournaments this year. I wonder if the total number of tournaments includes the number of doubles tournaments as well, of which she's also played 17. Perhaps other players don't play so many doubles tournaments? Or it could be that I've got the figures wrong, or misunderstood something, which I'm definitely prone to do.  


 Interesting, never realised that, well done - from what I can see you're A1 right - they count singles and doubles as two different events

So Ella has played 17 events but played singles and doubles for both, hence, 34 events

However, this applies to all the others too, of course.

So, for example, Liv Holde is down as having played 17 events, but only actually played 8 (she played Indian Wells doubles only, from what I can see) 

So the difference between Ella and the others at the top is the same, pretty much

I take Lambda's point about her playing lower ranking events at the start. 

But it's a bit more than that

Ella played 10 JA or J1 level events, including a whole bunch at the end of the year

Most of the other top-10 girls didn't play after the start of September 

None of this really matters to me - I think rankings at this age (both adult and junior) are all a bit of a circus - entertaining but nothing serious

I still think that, as of today, Ella's junior ranking is slightly inflated compared to her colleagues  (obviously her trajectory might carry on, though)

In the same way that her adult ranking is well lower than it should be compared to the others

(there's no way Ella is 920-ish while Sofia C is 420-ish and Sara S is 620-ish - i.e. that's not 'real' rankings)   

 



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End of 2022 Rankings:

Top 500

Girls:

9 - Ella MacDonald ('05)
26 - Ranah Stoiber ('05)
27 - Mimi Xu ('07)
84 - Hep Oluwadare ('07)
87 - Isabelle Lacy ('06)

152 - Hannah Klugman ('09)
157 - Imogen Haddad ('05)

276 - Gabia Paskauskas ('06)
285 - Ruby Cooling ('07)
291 - Marelie Raath ('06)
300 - Given Roach ('05)

310 - Daniela Piani ('07)
312 - Ellie Blackford ('06)
343 - Millie Skelton ('05)
393 - Hannah Read ('06)

419 - Allegra K Davies ('07)
422 - Sarah Tatu
427 - Talia N Gatenby ('05)
495 - Erin Pearce ('06)



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End of 2022 Rankings:

Top 500

Boys:

79 - Will Jansen

120 - Phoenix Weir ('05)
146 - Henry Searle ('06)
147 - Patrick Brady
153 - Luca Pow ('05)
200 - Oliver Bonding ('07)

203 - Freddy Blaydes ('05)
213 - Hugo Coquelin ('05)
249 - Viktor Frydrych ('06)
264 - Ben Gusic Wan ('07)

313 - Louis Bowden
317 - Charlie Robertson ('06)
342 - Matt Rankin
378 - Henry Jefferson ('06)
385 - Zach Stephens ('06)

459 - Fabio Nestola ('05)
484 - Roy Keegan ('05)



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Nix


Futures qualifying

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Posts: 1778
Date:

Coup Droit wrote:
Nix wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

It's a great achievement for Ella to be top-10, and I'm a big fan

But there's a BIG caveat.

Namely if you look at the number of tournaments played, the top-10 list goes like this:

1 - 16
2 - 20
3 - 17
4 - 20
5 - 26
6 - 18
7 - 25
8 - 7
9 - 34
10 - 8


So, Ella has played 34 events - the rest of the girls have barely played over 20

(Now, there are some girls lower down the ranks who've played even more than Ella, hers is not off the scale, but it is a LOT more than the others in the top 10, and does obviously rather water down the strength of her ranking) 


I had a quick look at Ella's record to see whether she'd been playing lower level tournament, hence the number of tournaments overall. But it seems like she's only played 17 singles tournaments this year. I wonder if the total number of tournaments includes the number of doubles tournaments as well, of which she's also played 17. Perhaps other players don't play so many doubles tournaments? Or it could be that I've got the figures wrong, or misunderstood something, which I'm definitely prone to do.  


 Interesting, never realised that, well done - from what I can see you're A1 right - they count singles and doubles as two different events

So Ella has played 17 events but played singles and doubles for both, hence, 34 events

However, this applies to all the others too, of course.

So, for example, Liv Holde is down as having played 17 events, but only actually played 8 (she played Indian Wells doubles only, from what I can see) 

So the difference between Ella and the others at the top is the same, pretty much

I take Lambda's point about her playing lower ranking events at the start. 

But it's a bit more than that

Ella played 10 JA or J1 level events, including a whole bunch at the end of the year

Most of the other top-10 girls didn't play after the start of September 

None of this really matters to me - I think rankings at this age (both adult and junior) are all a bit of a circus - entertaining but nothing serious

I still think that, as of today, Ella's junior ranking is slightly inflated compared to her colleagues  (obviously her trajectory might carry on, though)

In the same way that her adult ranking is well lower than it should be compared to the others

(there's no way Ella is 920-ish while Sofia C is 420-ish and Sara S is 620-ish - i.e. that's not 'real' rankings)   

 


 Thanks CD. Interesting. Learning all the time from you all. 



-- Edited by Nix on Wednesday 28th of December 2022 01:35:04 AM

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DF


Tennis legend

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Just crunching the numbers!

Top 500 17 boys 19 girls


Top 250 9 boys 7 girls


Top 100 1 boy 5 girls



Not even in Junior rankings do we have 20 in top 500 nor 10 in top 250 !

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Nix


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Date:

DF wrote:

Just crunching the numbers!

Top 500 17 boys 19 girls


Top 250 9 boys 7 girls


Top 100 1 boy 5 girls



Not even in Junior rankings do we have 20 in top 500 nor 10 in top 250 !


 Mind you if I've counted it right there will be over fifty 2004 girls dropping out of the top ranked 250 going into 2023 (none of them GB), which will mean we have at least ten in the top 250 for a short time at least! 



-- Edited by Nix on Thursday 29th of December 2022 03:16:58 PM

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