Weeks 3-4 - Australian Open, Women's Main Draw - Melbourne, Australia - Hard

Peter too · Tennis legend

Weeks 3-4 - Australian Open, Women's Main Draw - Melbourne, Australia - Hard

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Peter too wrote:
If a player can make it into the top 100 they should have a reasonable career as a coach, teacher, reporter, pundit etc. if they wish. I think we have had 9 girls since the middle of 2008 who have reached those exalted heights in singles, so about one new one every 15 months.

I think you're correct with 9. As far I can work out they are Mel South(very briefly ) Katie O'Brien, Naomi,Elena , Anne K., Laura, Heather, Jo and Katie B. It's anybody's guess who the next player to achieve this feat will be. I think we'll have to wait a little while. If they make the top 100 that is sufficient to make the main draw of the Grand Slams.

Ian1314 · Lower Club Player

Surely Harriet will be the next one.

emmsie69 · Top national player

In Mel South's best year she cleared £15,000 after expenses. Laura has been injured most of her career, fortunately she is very pretty otherwise do you think she'd be making anything from tennis right now, in fact look at the ladies that do commentate all very attractive if they weren't they'd be left out to dry. You're completely deluded about life as a journey tennis player. Maybe read the excellent article on the BBC site and the guardianto get a better idea of the realities.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

emmsie69 wrote:
In Mel South's best year she cleared £15,000 after expenses. Laura has been injured most of her career, fortunately she is very pretty otherwise do you think she'd be making anything from tennis right now, in fact look at the ladies that do commentate all very attractive if they weren't they'd be left out to dry. You're completely deluded about life as a journey tennis player. Maybe read the excellent article on the BBC site and the guardianto get a better idea of the realities.

I was not disputing about costs for journey tennis players. Before Laura was injured she did not work on her game as much as she should have done and swapped far too many coaches. Also I think she was victim of too much hype after the US Open of 2012 and Wimbledon 2013. But the fact is that of all the British women playing sports the woman who has made the most prize money in the last few years is playing tennis and that is Johanna Konta. i.e of all the sports , tennis has the greatest rewards for its successful players.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

emmsie69 wrote:
In Mel South's best year she cleared £15,000 after expenses. Laura has been injured most of her career, fortunately she is very pretty otherwise do you think she'd be making anything from tennis right now, in fact look at the ladies that do commentate all very attractive if they weren't they'd be left out to dry. You're completely deluded about life as a journey tennis player. Maybe read the excellent article on the BBC site and the guardianto get a better idea of the realities.

I resent being called completely deluded about life as a journey tennis player. It is not a forum to insult people. I have been following the sport since the early 60's and was lucky enough to be around for the Grand Slam triumphs of Ann Jones, Virginia Wade and Sue Barker and the near misses of Roger Taylor and Jo Durie. I am not ignorant you know. The argument is about how to produce some decent players and not players who are simply not good enough.

emmsie69 · Top national player

Over 60,000 women in the UK earn in excess of £150,000 a year, how many tennis players do that, 100 in the world if that. As for being offended tough, we aren't in the 60's anymore, there are far better opportunities for women now and any woman with half a brain isn't going to waste her best years staying in flea bitten hotels, playing to an audience of 3 men and a dog unless they are absolutely convinced they can get to the top. There's a reason Katie Boulter dragged herself over to France to sign in for a tournament she had no hope of playing, that was the payday for the years slumming it.

Status Quo · Intermediate Club Player

For the record, I think ROSAMUND's comments elsewhere historically inthe forum demonstrate that they do have a good understanding of the travails of journey tennis pros, and many other things in general.

Mel South is an interesting case, because though she did break the top 100, and a brilliant achievement it was, she did so for exactly one week, w/c 02 Fen 2009, when for one week she was WR99. The week after, she was back to WR101, and never got back into the top 100 again.
So, although she did reach the top 100, it's not really representative to call her a top 100 player, and expect her to have amassed the fortunes of an established top 100 player, even one in the sort of WR60-80 range.
Indeed, in her career, Mel spent less then 18 months in total inside the top 150. Her rise to her peak was exciting, and seemed to promise much more, but the flame burned quickly out. Injury and other factors meant she never had a sustained period much beyond $25K - the second lowest rung on the professional ladder at her time. It's not really realistic to expect a player living at that sort of level for most of their career to make much of a profit given the global nature of the sport.

If there was a domestic league that would save players on the exhorbitant travel and accommodation expenses, then perhaps more could be returned to grass roots players pockets. But that is not the structure of the game. Almost no nation, even arguably USA, holds enough events to sustain domestic players by virtue of only playing exclusively in their own countries.
So, you have to travel.

In order to see the profit, you have to get on the WTA, and stay there for a year or two, or more, and have some success throughout that period. Maintaining a top 100 ranking for a couple of years is the entry level.
Even that may not be sufficient. Players like Julia Cohen managed to get there and stay there by playing down to smaller tournaments, and winning them, but got little comparative financial reward from that strategy, and was unable to push on to start winning WTA level matches, where the real money is made.

ITF is simply a means to an end - an eventual shot at the big time. Anyone trying to make a living at that level has the wrong idea entirely. I'm not exactly thrilled that this is the way of things, and it could be distributed more evenly, but it is the truth of the tennis finances. It does at least reward excellence, I suppose.

Peter too · Tennis legend

Mel South turned pro in 2004, retired in 2013 having collected $464,831 in prize money. In 2006 she reached R2 of Wimbledon in 2008 she reached Q3 of the US Open and in 2009 she got to R1 of the Australian and French opens. She is now studying "understanding Health' at the Open Univ and hopes that will lead to a course in psychology.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Peter too wrote:
Mel South turned pro in 2004, retired in 2013 having collected $464,831 in prize money. In 2006 she reached R2 of Wimbledon in 2008 she reached Q3 of the US Open and in 2009 she got to R1 of the Australian and French opens. She is now studying "understanding Health' at the Open Univ and hopes that will lead to a course in psychology.

So in 10 years she average $46k per annum, let's say £35k in pounds. Out of that all of her costs.

Without a wealthy benefactor, sponsor or parents it isnt possible to make a living from that in a sustainable way.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

Whilst we are showing what a financial struggle it for journey women tennis players it is interesting to see how Johanna Konta's winnings shot up once she rose up the rankings. She turned pro in 2008 and at the end of 2015 (i.e. 8 years) her winnings were $841,947. However in the years 2016 to 2019(i.e 4 years) her winnings were $8,512,417 . Total career winnings at the end of 2019 were $9,354,364. No doubt I will be told this is not the norm but it is the best earnings for any British sportswoman. You could certainly retire on that even after tax. Another fact is that the LTA has received vast sums in money over the years compared with other countries but somehow money doesn't buy tennis success for us.

ROSAMUND · Futures level

It turned out of the 22 American ladies in the Aussie Open Kenin proved the most successful. Of course they have a huge pool of talent unlike the American men who don't register much these days.(apart from Tenys Sandgren who has reached the quarter finals . )

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

ROSAMUND wrote:
Whilst we are showing what a financial struggle it for journey women tennis players it is interesting to see how Johanna Konta's winnings shot up once she rose up the rankings. She turned pro in 2008 and at the end of 2015 (i.e. 8 years) her winnings were $841,947. However in the years 2016 to 2019(i.e 4 years) her winnings were $8,512,417 . Total career winnings at the end of 2019 were $9,354,364. No doubt I will be told this is not the norm but it is the best earnings for any British sportswoman. You could certainly retire on that even after tax. Another fact is that the LTA has received vast sums in money over the years compared with other countries but somehow money doesn't buy tennis success for us.

And not forgetting she will have had some decent endorsements and maybe appearance fees since she reached the top.

I watched Jo at some Oxford Union speech she gave which British airways bizarrely had on their in flight system when I took a flight to the States. She came across as bright, articulate and engaging , amusing. I am sure post tennis she will forge a future career in something else.

Andy Parker · Club Coach

ROSAMUND wrote:
Peter too wrote:
If a player can make it into the top 100 they should have a reasonable career as a coach, teacher, reporter, pundit etc. if they wish. I think we have had 9 girls since the middle of 2008 who have reached those exalted heights in singles, so about one new one every 15 months.
I think you're correct with 9. As far I can work out they are Mel South(very briefly ) Katie O'Brien, Naomi,Elena , Anne K., Laura, Heather, Jo and Katie B. It's anybody's guess who the next player to achieve this feat will be. I think we'll have to wait a little while. If they make the top 100 that is sufficient to make the main draw of the Grand Slams.

Harriet made the top 100 as well, before she was out injured for a while - career high of 92.

indiana · Tennis legend

92 is Harriet's doubles CH. Her singles CH is 121 from January last year.

Hope she does break into that singles top 100 within the next year or so. I think she will but it's certainly not a given.