Weeks 53 & 1 - 2020 ATP Cup - Brisbane, Perth & Sydney, Australia ($15,000,000)

the addict · Tennis legend

Weeks 53 & 1 - 2020 ATP Cup - Brisbane, Perth & Sydney, Australia ($15,000,000)

indiana · Tennis legend

So, clearly must be additional. Yes, very generous for those with the opportunity to play here ( largely depending on where they are from ) and already with 18 counters.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:
So we need to beat moldova 3 nil, and have Belgium beat Bulgaria 2-1 to get in a 3 way tie which will come down to sets xountback. A Bulgaria win or belgium 3 nil will mean we come 2nd at best.

A 3 nil win is also a must to get one of the top 2nd place spots.

At least we know nothing less than perfect will do

Cam should win and also doubles , down to dan to beat albot
Yes, if Bulgaria win or Belgium win 3-0 they win the group.
But in the we win 3-0 and Belgium win 2-1 scenario Bulgaria would be beaten in the 3 way tiebreak since they only beat Moldova 2-1. Sets % would determine 1st and 2nd between GB and Belgium and that looks quite decent for us just now assuming these wins 3-0 for us and 2-1 for Belgium. Whatever, a 3-0 win for us vs Moldova and we can't be worse than 2nd.
If we do finish 2nd yes we still certainly want that 3-0 win to have an overall 6-3 record. In the other 2 groups to have played twice now (D and F) the best a 2nd place team can now do is 2-1 6-3.
After 2 ties :
Bulgaria 2-0 4-2 9-6 73-63
Belgium 1-1 4-2 8-6 74-65
G Britain 1-1 3-3 8-7 70-67
Moldova 0-2 1-5 4-10 58-80

Hi Indy - hadnt spotted that Bulgaria only beat Moldova 2-1 so that helps a little for GB's cause, as you say. Still need that 2-1 result in Belgium v Bulgaria though and 3-0 for us to win whatever route we end up with to try and make the QF stage. It does feel 3-0 is dependent on Dan beating Albot, I would like to think he can, but Albot played so well against Dan last year in Delray that it feels like a 50-50 match to me.

Belgium v Bulgaria also feels like Belgium should win at least 2 and it will come down to Goffin v Dimitrov, which will be a close match as well.

Today's matches (morning/afternoon session) currently still leave GB in 2nd best 2nd place team position, that could change by the time the evening matches conclude.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

It looks like Spain will win 3-0 today and Japan will move down into 2nd place with a 5-1 record. So that will in turn move GB down and out of the top 2 places for RU's. Serbia v France will finish 2-1 one way or the other. If France win the doubles, Serbia will also be 2nd and on 4-2, further pushing us down. However if Serbia pull that one out (and presumably Djoko will play) then we should remain in 3rd place in the RU's table, as Serbia will move to the top of their group and France and South Africa will have a worse sets w/l record than GB. Austria and Argentina are the other ones alive and neither of those will better our current record at the end of the day.

But like the Davis Cup, it will all be extremely tight, and there is no real getting around GB needing to win 3-0 tomorrow versus Moldova

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

C/RR3: (2) Cameron Norrie WR 52 vs (2) Alexander Cozbinov (MDA) WR 816 (= CH)

C/RR3: (1) Daniel Evans WR 42 vs (1) Radu Albot (MDA) WR 46 (CH = 39 last August)

C/RR3: Jamie Murray & Joe Salisbury CR 45 (23+22) vs Radu Albot & Alexander Cozbinov (MDA/MDA) CR 486 (99+387)

Dan leads the head-to-head with Albot by 2-1. All three matches were played last year: Dan beat Albot in three sets in the last 16 at Atlanta (7-6(5) 5-7 6-2) & in straight sets in the first round at Eastbourne (7-6(2) 6-2), while the Moldovan came back from the dead in that final ay Delray Beach to win by 3-6 6-3 7-6(7). There is no head-to-head for Cam & Cozbinov.

the addict · Tennis legend

Serbia duly win the doubles on a MTB

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

In terms of the contenders for the RU spots, this is the official standing, below. Several teams share our records. Belgium appear above us but as they are in fact 3rd in our group (on countback to the GB team having lost to us H2H) then I dont think they can actually appear above us as the ATP seem to indicate. In essence, it will require a 2-1 record to progress, Japan will possibly come back to a 5-4 record (they play Spain last and a 3-0 loss is likely), and then everyone else is on 3-3, like us (taking Belgium out). So a 3-0 win is a must but also a 3-0 win could very definitely place us well in this list and give us a good chance to progress. If we win 3-0 and reach 6-3, then the only teams that can beat us or equal us are in the list below, I think.

Pos
Country
Group
Tie W/L
Match W/L
Set W %
Game W %

Japan
B
2-0
5-1
76.92
62.28

Canada
F
1-1
3-3
57.14
52.67

Belgium
C
1-1
4-2
57.14
53.24

Great Britain
C
1-1
3-3
53.33
51.09

Austria
E
1-1
3-3
53.33
50.34

South Africa
A
1-1
3-3
50.00
50.79

France
A
1-1
3-3
46.67
49.65

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Monday 6th of January 2020 02:46:43 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, I did notice GB currently showing above Belgium on a wiki page but there had been no mention on it of H2H applying, just matches, sets and games. So I listed us behind Belgium.

So does H2H come into it?

If so, then in the we win 3-0 and Belgium win 2-1 scenario does that mean we would definitely win the group?
ie. GB, Belgium, Bulgaria all 2 ties won, then as above Bulgaria then out on less matches won, and then H2H with the two left so GB would win that.

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

I see that Djokovic won his doubles to get Serbia through to the Quarters. It made me wonder, if the entire top 100 singles players played doubles, how many of the current top 100 doubles players, would still be in the top 100?

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Yes, I did notice GB currently showing above Belgium on a wiki page but there had been no mention on it of H2H applying, just matches, sets and games. So I listed us behind Belgium.

So does H2H come into it?

If so, then in the we win 3-0 and Belgium win 2-1 scenario does that mean we would definitely win the group?
ie. GB, Belgium, Bulgaria all 2 ties won, then as above Bulgaria then out on less matches won, and then H2H with the two left so GB would win that.

It isnt entirely clear to be be frank!

Within the group, as you say, Wiki shows GB as 2nd ahead of Belgium which suggests H2H counts (as does ATP Cup website)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_ATP_Cup

I found these comments in the rules: Within groups it looks like positions will be determined by H2H

4) Determination of Quarter-Final Teams Group Winners a) Number of ties won b) Number of Ties Played Comment: 2-1 win-loss beats 2-0 win-loss. A 1-2 win-loss beats a 1-1 or 1-0 record. A team winning by walkover shall have the tie count in its results as a tie played. The team causing the walkover shall not have the tie counted as a tie played. c) Head-to-Head results if only two (2) teams are tied. d) In a tie between three (3) teams, the following shall apply: i) If three (3) teams have the same number of wins, then the team having played fewer total matches (singles & doubles) will be eliminated and the winner of the head-to-head matchup between the two remaining teams advance, if still tied then, Comment: 11-1 win-loss beats 11-0 win-loss. A 5-7 win-loss beats 5-0 record ii) The team with the most match wins (singles & doubles), if still tied then, iii) The team with the highest percentage of matches won, if still tied then, iv) The team that has the highest percentage of sets won, if still tied then, v) The team with the highest percentage of games won, e) If ii), iii), iv) or v) produce one superior team (first place), then the tie is broken, or f) If ii), iii), iv) or v) produce one inferior team then that team is eliminated and the winner of the match between the two (2) remaining teams is the winner of the group.

So if Bel, Bul and GB all end up 2-1 wins, it will be a 3 way tie and come down to match wins. GB and Bel if equal would then come down to sets won? At the moment, it is a 2 way tie, and we thus beat them on H2H whoch counts in a 2 way tie.

FOR THE 2nd PLACED teams listing it is not H2H (as it cant be) and gets listed as follows:The key here though is, if Belgium come 3rd in the group can they be counted in the 2nd place nations assessment, ATP currently show them as listed but if GB beat them to 2nd place, then surely Belgium are out and only GB would go into the 2nd place nations comparison?

Second Place Teams (2) a) Most Ties won, if more than two (2) teams remain tied, then b) Most Ties played, then c) Most total matches won (singles & doubles), then d) Most total matches played (singles & doubles), then e) Highest percentage of sets won (singles & doubles), then f) Highest percentage of games won (singles & doubles), then g) Highest percentage of sets won by number 1 player, then h) Highest percentage of sets won by number 2 player, then i) Highest percentage of games won by number 1 player, then j) Highest percentage of games won by number 2 player, then k) Highest percentage of sets won in doubles, then l) Highest percentage of games won in doubles

As always, not very clear!

https://www.tennis.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/atp-cup-rules-1.pdf

IMO, they should do away with H2H and just base it on overall record. The H2H element confuses things in these Round Robin events as it is never very clear at which point H2H starts to kick in, as per above. Straight overall records moving through the wins, sets, games scenarios is much easier to follow

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Monday 6th of January 2020 03:54:42 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Thanks Jon

indiana · Tennis legend

Looking through all the other groups after 2 ties for everyone and looking at the final group ties, I can only see one group where an ultimate 2nd place team can have a 2-1 7-2 win/loss record.

i.e. Serbia in Group B if they lose their final tie to Japan 2-1.

So if GB are 2nd place with a 6-3 record they will at least get into a sets tiebreak equation for one of the best two 2nd place teams.

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

indiana wrote:
Looking through all the other groups after 2 ties for everyone and looking at the final group ties, I can only see one group where an ultimate 2nd place team can have a 2-1 7-2 win/loss record.

i.e. Serbia in Group B if they lose their final tie to Japan 2-1.

So if GB are 2nd place with a 6-3 record they will at least get into a sets tiebreak equation for one of the best two 2nd place teams.

And realistically, Serbia should win ...

Apologies we both mean Spain I think?! Serbia are actually through in group a with Australia also through.

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Monday 6th of January 2020 08:26:12 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

JonH comes home wrote:
indiana wrote:
Looking through all the other groups after 2 ties for everyone and looking at the final group ties, I can only see one group where an ultimate 2nd place team can have a 2-1 7-2 win/loss record.

i.e. Serbia in Group B if they lose their final tie to Japan 2-1.

So if GB are 2nd place with a 6-3 record they will at least get into a sets tiebreak equation for one of the best two 2nd place teams.
And realistically, Serbia should win ...
Apologies we both mean Spain I think?! Serbia are actually through in group a with Australia also through.

-- Edited by JonH comes home on Monday 6th of January 2020 08:26:12 PM

Oops, yes meant Spain.

And I agree Spain should win, which would leave Japan 2nd, at best 2-1 6-3, and then no group 2nds 2-1 7-2.

Now GB, please help make much of this discussion relevant by getting yourselves to 2-1 6-3 !

the addict · Tennis legend

Cam on court, warmup in progress. Coverage on Amazon Prime at amzn.to/2MP7Qf8