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Post Info TOPIC: Transitional tour


Tennis legend

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Transitional tour


I think that looks pretty good.

I'm surprised there's been so much negativity about the new system. It's true we haven't seen it in practice yet. But from the figures above there are tons more players who now have an ITF ranking and will have an easier job getting into 15k draws (although I assume other countries too have tons more players).
And most of our better players are actually higher ranked (WTA) in the new system. Only Emily App and Fran are majorly disadvantaged by it, and Emily Appleton's drop is perfectly fair, given all her points have come from 15ks, and playing an inordinate amount (twelve 25k events played and no MD wins).
People have said it's a shame for Emilie Lindh, for instance, that she's just started clocking up points when they aren't as valuable.
But I don't really see much difference - if you're WTA 900 now, you can't get into a 25k. So, after the transition, if you're effectively 900 WTA by being actually unranked in WTA but with a high ITF, then it's the same.

PS, Tx, Red Squirrel, for taking the time to post it.



-- Edited by Coup Droit on Thursday 8th of November 2018 12:47:30 PM

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Tennis legend

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Thanks very much Red Squirrel.

I must admit to having my own doubts about the new system and there may be unexpected / unwelcome consequences still to be seen. But one not unexpected reason for some of the negativity ( including perhaps some of my own ) is no doubt because it's new, it's different.



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Grand Slam Champion

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Yes, many thanks Red Squirrel :D

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All-time great

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They are still failing to accommodate the players however that have WTA points but less than the three counters. Olivia Peet is in neither list, Eden Richardson is in neither list (though both have 6 WTA points), Ali Collins I suspect has non-recognised WTA points etc....

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Article in today's Times which discusses some of the points about the new system
www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/sport/new-itf-world-tennis-tour-and-dual-ranking-system-causing-confusion-ncbxz00wl

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Satellite level

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Having introduced live ITF rankings for the men a couple of weeks ago, OER now have them for the women.
www.openerarankings.com/WTAHome

They appear to have 1 error in that they do not appear to be giving a point for reaching the FQR. They are also do not appear to be including any counters due to drop this year.

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Satellite level

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Just as you think you've managed to get your head around the new system, in the 2019 rulebook it is revealed that the seedings for womens 15K singles are worked out in this order:
Players with a WTA ranking of 1 to 650
then players with an ITF ranking of 1 to 30
then remaining players with a WTA ranking
then remaining players with an ITF ranking
confuse

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Oh flip.

It's all confusing enough for us. Pity the players. Poor Tara for one judging by a tweet.

There HAS TO BE in time distinct pluses achieved by the new systems that outweigh all the uncertainty and at least initial confusion that has been introduced or in time the questions will be WHY, OH WHY?



-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 15th of December 2018 07:42:34 AM

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We will see some unintended consequences, I was unable to access Stu Frasers article and therefore find out the contents of his crystal ball but its interesting to speculate.

We may see the players ranked in the top 500 on the mens side get even older as exactly how to game to the new rules becomes apparent. That 15 to 25K step has to be pretty clean, generally one has to dominate ones cohort to transition a tier. Only the very best juniors will be able to do that.

Using British players as an example the likes of Jack Draper wont really be affected but perhaps the direction Anton Matusivich should take is less clear, ie. very good junior but not dominating his chronological cohort a year or two early. I think the futures wilderness years may be longer. This would make collegiate tennis potentially much more attractive. Collegiate tennis is 15K level in the power conferences and national competition 25k/ challenger level in the final rounds. Cam would have been totally unaffected by the changes (potentially debt free) and had the college experience, he made a very clean transition but didnt attempt it until age 22.

In the mean time under ranked college players will be dependant on wildcards probably easier for the US guys in the US but a bit more difficult for those trying to establish a rank in Europe during the holidays. Perhaps more players will choose the college route and play all 4 years in college with little or no impact on ATP rankings. The 15K to 25k step becomes steeper with more mature players who transitioned later hanging on longer??

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There is a new US Collegiate tournament for the best US collegiate players this weekend at the Collegiate Center in Orlando, Florida.
The champion earns a spot in the main draw of a 2019 $60K tournament. Along with wild cards, players will also compete for a guaranteed spot on the 2019 Collegiate National Team. A member of the squad receives grant money to travel to professional tournaments and coaching from USTA Player Development staff. The British squad lost out last year but beat them in 2017. I dont know what support they get apart from coaching and accomofation around the international event and perhaps a tracksuit. With some very good players in the power conferences and one or two strong players in the U.K. British tennis has to give a similar approach some thought.


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So I'm just finding this new transition tour concept more and more mudlike... and then I see that the LTA has announced they won't be holding any ITF transition tour level tournaments next year. And increasingly I'm just thinking wtf? How exactly are they interpreting this new world/ tennis order? And what exactly is the message they are trying to pass onto younger aspiring players? How do they expect them to reach the main ATP/ WTA tours, if they have to accrue ITF transition points first in order to have a chance of even entering qualifying for a main tour event? I mean to me the message is we don't give a s... go to Monastir, Antalya, Sharm, wherever to acquire your tiny little 1s and 2s points, whilst we are only going to focus on the 'real' professional players. It's like saying, ok, from now on we are only going to have the Premier League and Championship in football... and disband all the lower leagues... and good luck to you elite sides where you find your future players from.

I'm other misunderstanding or missing something, but given the growing number of countries cancelling their ITF events next year, how is it they are viewing the tennis ladder? The rationale for the new structure seemed to be, if you want to be a tennis professional who can make a living from the game... you have to prove you have what it takes on a 'non-professional' lower tier before you can join the real 'pro' ranks... but actually, just so that we make your life really hard, and eliminate most of you from even bothering to try... we are also going to eliminate most of those bottom rungs on the ladder altogether.. and then we will really know which ones of you are really committed to becoming a pro by seeing how high you can jump and cling on with your finger tips... or more prosaically have rich family/ supporters to take a punt on paying your way to which ever countries are modest/ lower class enough in their tennis ambitions to keep hosting 'non-professional' tournaments.

I'm not against tennis reform but this all looks to me a classic example of a new system designed by a committee who couldn't be bothered to see whether the dots all join together... A bit like some other chaotic process I could name but won't. Maybe I do misunderstand and it will all turn out hunky dory.. but I have a lot of sympathy for young aspiring professionals right now trying to decipher all this and work out whether they have a chance of a career or not knowing that basically the shallow end where you can try out your abilities first, has been taken out and discarded.


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The only thing I can think is that the LTA, and Canada, and such, are just looking at wildcards in the bigger events as being the way forward. For the favoured few.

To be honest, for the LTA, and as regards the women, that's no different from their approach this year, pre the transition tour. At least it's consistent :(



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Coup Droit wrote:

The only thing I can think is that the LTA, and Canada, and such, are just looking at wildcards in the bigger events as being the way forward. For the favoured few.

To be honest, for the LTA, and as regards the women, that's no different from their approach this year, pre the transition tour. At least it's consistent :(


I guess we will have to see how Alt lists actually work to see the extent to which players with only a transition tour ranking can actually get into 25k events, also given the -8 positions in the q draws.  



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All-time great

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I dont think the LTA were ever really interested than in anyone other than the elite few, the impression I got from the few LTA coaches I have spoken to at length was that if you went to college you werent good enough. However College for 4 years is looking a good choice unless you are a mega junior, if plenty go the best players will be 25K ready and if you are not you wont be skint and you may even have a degree.



-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 06:14:37 AM

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It looks as if the aim is to return tennis to its amateur status apart from an elite few.

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