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Oakland2002 · All-time great

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Michael D · All-time great

Peter too wrote:
It looks as if the aim is to return tennis to its amateur status apart from an elite few.

It's not even clear what was so broken about the old system especially for the women. In addition, if they did want a change, a system of having different 'tours' could easily have been used, similar to golf, and retaining the single ranking system, which is really essential in being able to compare the relative status of players across tours. It's having the single ranking system that unites the sport, and gives players something much clearer to aim for.

I don't expect the current 'new' system as it is to survive unmodified into 2020, unless the ITF is really stubborn. But yes, at the moment the system does appear designed to promote further exclusion and inequality, the consequences of which global trends are ripping up our societies today.

indiana · Tennis legend

Michael D wrote:
Peter too wrote:
It looks as if the aim is to return tennis to its amateur status apart from an elite few.
It's not even clear what was so broken about the old system especially for the women. In addition, if they did want a change, a system of having different 'tours' could easily have been used, similar to golf, and retaining the single ranking system, which is really essential in being able to compare the relative status of players across tours. It's having the single ranking system that unites the sport, and gives players something much clearer to aim for.
I don't expect the current 'new' system as it is to survive unmodified into 2020, unless the ITF is really stubborn. But yes, at the moment the system does appear designed to promote further exclusion and inequality, the consequences of which global trends are ripping up our societies today.

This

As I said before it will have to provide a heck of a lot of as yet unclear positives to override the already clear and also no doubt unclear negatives.

Wasn't the review originally due to bettng concerns with courtsiders etc and the then working party came up with this hotchpot where clearly downgrading events for many gets rid of such concerns confuse ( though maybe having many fewer events left at all, the way Canada and GB have say reacted, helps though there were probably better ways of tackling it rather than just getting rid of many pro matches ). Make players poorer and more desperate and they are not going to be corrupted, hmm ...

Actually I'm not sure even the ITF any longer knows what it's all about since there seem to be various generally unconvincing reasonings given.

-- Edited by indiana on Wednesday 19th of December 2018 12:13:37 PM

Michael D · All-time great

I've just noticed something about the entry lists for the new year that confuse me even more. After the utter confusion of the early year 25k entry list, I looked at the first 15k entry lists available for the week of 7 January, expecting to find them based on the transition tour rankings... But no, the 15k entry lists are entirely based on the WTA rankings, except for the junior reserved places. Now that is totally weird. Entry is based on a ranking system to which the 15k tournaments do not contribute. So win the tournament, and it does not improve your ranking to get in the next one... In the meantime of course, those that have gained their points through the 15k tournaments like Emilie and the Pitak sisters, don't have WTA rankings for the 15k entry lists, so are penalised for playing tournaments at the level of those they are trying to enter.... I don't know if there is supposed to be a switch to using the ITF rankings at some point... but what a complete and utter shambles this is.

TomTraubert · Futures level

but the point of it is not to do anything nobel or productive for most players
it suposed to REDUCE number of pros to about 700 on each tour
it suposed to make juniors the pathway and get young talent and proven juniors into pro ranks quicker and at a preemium
it designed to do that and it probabely will

thinking it suposed to do anything else is misunderstanding the whole exsercise
it SUPOSED to be a cull and what has been deamed dead wood be damned

not saying i agre with these aims at all but it is what it is and not what people seem to be misunderstanding it to be something else
i listen to the tennis chanel/sport ilustratted podcast this week about the subject and they knew nothing jon wertheim admit as it werent top end stuff that he had no clue as "the weeds" he kept calling it were no concern to him but his gest kept saying it was bad for us college tennis and poor stevie johnson would struggle under this system and insisted that 10-14k pros were losing there lifelihoods (there are ~2.2k atp pro and ~1.2K wta pro so his figures are stupid) and the whole hour built on a pack of false info and wrongg ideas of what the aims were

everyone been sleeping on this and only just now waking up

2019 gonna be prety bruetal and maybe fatal if the pique group and other money movers keep trying to fracture and otherwise change tennis so that they can take all the spoils we be down to slams and contrived exos and team comps soon

Michael D · All-time great

My main point on this nonsense was how can you use WTA rankings as the entry system for 15k tournaments at which you accumulate no WTA ranking points?

newby · Junior player

Please someone look at first Hongkong 25k of new season and explain WHY Yadav and Riley are next in main draw. No axe to grind, just trying to understand the system

Michael D · All-time great

newby wrote:
Please someone look at first Hongkong 25k of new season and explain WHY Yadav and Riley are next in main draw. No axe to grind, just trying to understand the system

It would seem to be an error but heavens knows how the error gets made, since they are both a long way down and in the middle of the alt list. The next few weeks entry lists and draws promise some interesting times and no doubt frustrated players. I don't think anyone really understands the system yet, including those administering it.

RedSquirrel · Satellite level

It's a bug. It's incorrectly including the WTA rankings of those in the reserved list when calculating who is the next ranked players in the direct acceptance list. As that is Wu at 828 it's calculating the next in being Riley (831) and Yadav (842). This has only being calculated wrongly since the withdrawal deadline. Prior to the withdrawal deadline it was correctly just working next in from the lowest ranked direct acceptance player. The next two in will be the two highest placed in qualifying unless a player occupying a reserved place has a higher ranking, in which case they would move to a direct acceptance place and by replaced in the reserved list from the reserved list alternates.

Week 2 is also wrong as its working from the next ranked player below the JE in the direct acceptance main draw instead of the last non special entrant direct acceptance.

the addict · Tennis legend

Got to be a computer glitch. I looked at Riley's points and activity and there's no way she should be getting into 25k's - struggling at 15k level. The other next entries all look sensible though. But if you look at the Playford entires, Hondo and Sun are halfway down the qualifying list, so shouldn't be the next MD entries, and again, the other next entries are logical.

Same thing happening for the Week 2 Hong Kong tournament.

Edit: - Red posted whilst I was checking, and now it's obvious !

-- Edited by the addict on Saturday 22nd of December 2018 08:05:35 PM

the addict · Tennis legend

Lissey Barnett is another who has posted that she can't get into a W25 (with WR474). Not enough tournaments to thin the field for a few weeks, so it's going to be tough.

TomTraubert · Futures level

13 empty spots in the 15k qualification in monastir this week
hard to hear complaints if events are available and people just dont want to play them

Peter too · Tennis legend

17 empty spaces in the 15K at Fort-de-France (Martinique) out of a total of 24.

the addict · Tennis legend

And those are the only two W15's this week. But the W25's are way over-subscribed

Michael D · All-time great

the addict wrote:
And those are the only two W15's this week. But the W25's are way over-subscribed

Yes, I think the W15ks will be seen very differently now. Not as a stepping stone to the 25ks, though they still can be, but more as a road to nowhere much, whereas the W25s are definitely a road to somewhere. In terms of the amount of effort record to get to the top of the transitional rankings... players if they can would rather skip that long vague road.