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Post Info TOPIC: Transitional tour


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RE: Transitional tour


indiana wrote:

These points being shown are just the current system projected points at 22/10 save Katie B and Katie S where it doesn't include their points for this week.


The rankings though look very possible - eg I know Emily App's WTA ranking will take a big fall with her lack of 25K or above points.





Strongbow has copied the wrong column for the points.

For the 31 December, the guaranteed points table, excluding this week's 100K, is below. It should be noted that unless there has been a big drop in the number of women with shadow WTA points in the last month, some of these rankings are slightly higher than they will end up being. For example, Emily Appleton was 797th with 8 points on the 10th September shadow rankings, more points than she has guaranteed in the OER table and a lower position. Also on the 10th September, while Nell wasn't ranked then as she didn't have the 3 counters, women with 3 points from 3 tournaments were ranked 865. I've included the 10th September position which may give a better indication of what position certain points would equate to.

Emma and Tiff will both have 2 counters. I think it is likely that Emma will get a WC to Wirral which will give her that 3rd counter.

Ord#PLAYER NAMEPtsPts shift
from 22/10
Pos shift
from 22/10
10 Sep
Shadow Pts
10 Sep
Shadow Pos
137Johanna Konta130001117045
294Heather Watson62804579107
397Katie Boulter613-34-2594106
4156Harriet Dart345-26347174
5187Gabriella Taylor283-53-16336177
6192Katie Swan274-65-25356168
7234Naomi Broady202-84-31388161
8244Katy Dunne194-56-16246228
9369Maia Lumsden86-201072416
10429Sarah Beth Grey58-192275412
11444Alicia Barnett52-96345503
12456Laura Robson49-33-25107358
13456Eden Silva49-27-443516
14465Jodie Burrage48-27-1138541
15465Tara Moore48-29-1780406
16474Freya Christie46-143647493
17512Emily Webley-Smith36-23049488
18517Francesca Jones35-54-10114696
19540Samantha Murray30-33-4250485
20622Ella Taylor18-216317671
21717Emily Arbuthnott902789772
22759Emily Appleton6-56-2588797
23791Nell Miller3-1417UNRUNR


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Strongbow wrote:

indiana wrote:

These points being shown are just the current system projected points at 22/10 save Katie B and Katie S where it doesn't include their points for this week.

The rankings though look very possible - eg I know Emily App's WTA ranking will take a big fall with her lack of 25K or above points.


 It is very likely that this won't go ahead given that there are only 10-11 effective weeks before the new year. There is still a lot of the detail that is "TBA". I think that lawyers will be the only winners.




What do you think is still TBA?

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Strongbow thank you for starting the thread, looking forward to it all settling down.

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paulisi wrote:
RedSquirrel wrote:

Olivia only has 1 counter so doesn't have a WTA ranking. However, the anomaly you suggest doesn't occur as players with a WTA ranking will be accepted to transition tour events ahead of players with only an ITF ranking. The entry list for Pro Circuit and transition tour events will be in order of WTA ranking, ITF ranking and if vacancies remain, national ranking and unranked.


 That makes more sense.


 But where are Olivia's points showing in the shadow rankings? I don't see them anywhere? And Eden Richardson's too for that matter? She also has 6 WTA points but no ITF points. The WTA shadow rankings are not showing people with less than 3 counters. 



-- Edited by Michael D on Friday 19th of October 2018 10:09:24 AM

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From the ITF site:

"In other words:

The number of WTA-ranked players at the start of 2019 will be the number of players who in 2018 earned at least 3 WTA points in 3 tournaments at the $25k level or above (or 10 points in 1 tournament). Our projections suggest that this will be approximately 850 players."

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Michael D wrote:

The WTA shadow rankings are now showing people with less than 3 counters. 




Where?

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RedSquirrel wrote:
Michael D wrote:

The WTA shadow rankings are now showing people with less than 3 counters. 



 

Where?


 Sorry, a crucial spelling mistake in there. It was supposed to be not rather than now



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wf0701.jpg

curr is 22/10 new is 07/01

 



-- Edited by Strongbow on Friday 19th of October 2018 11:43:57 AM

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So you can say have qualified for two 25Ks and reached the L16 in one of them, so have 7 points from 2 counters, and will as things stand not be on either ranking list.

So on entry lists behind all with an ITF ranking such as from the 1 point for reaching a 15K FQR.

Clearly the vast majority of players with any 25K points will have 15K points but it is still anomalous, indeed rather ridiculous. And it stems from that WTA 3 counters/10 points minimum which was already dubious and anomalous at times ( such as with that example of 25K - Q/R2 + Q/R1 never being ranked in the first place ).



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Womens 25k points are "TBA".

ttp.jpg



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I'm not opposed to the 3 counter rule as it stops weak players getting a ranking just by being given one WC. This will be more relevant in the new world where WTA rankings get in ahead of ITF rankings. The alternative is not to award points to WCs who lose in the first round. The 10 point rule is too high in my view. Any player who wins a match at 25K level I think deserves to be ranked, so I would halve the minimum points to 5 points.

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Yes, its the 10 points that is the real problem. As you say, too high.

Indeed in the past I'd have been for even leaving it at 3 points given you'ed have to actually do something to be ranked with less than 3 counters eg a 15K QF to get 2 points plus a further point. And if you got 3 1s you'ed be ranked anyway on the current basis. But yes 5 points would deal with that 25K MD win and more relevant to the new systems with 25Ks not counting towards WTA rankings whereas 15K results will carry into the new ITF rankings.

I believe there used to be no minimum points, just the 3 counters and the 10 points thing was brought in rather arbitrarily so that returning 'stars' could comfortably be ranked again after one tournament. The anomalies lower down the food chain ( already there but could have been much more fully dealt with at that point ) don't seem to have been fully thought through.



-- Edited by indiana on Friday 19th of October 2018 12:51:31 PM

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Next year's tourneys are now starting to appear on the ITF calendar and there is a 60K at Shrewsbury on 11 Feb
https://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/tournaments/women's-tournament/info.aspx?tournamentid=1100044556 Edit: original link didn't work. Amended

-- Edited by RedSquirrel on Monday 22nd of October 2018 04:29:53 PM

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itf hole stated purpose in doing this is to get to about 750 wta ranked pros
even with this change they gonna be at that number already so cant reduce the qualifications for the 10 points and other stuff or they just be making the wta rank player numbers up to high
i expect them in a year or so to go the other way declare that number still to high and so make things evern hardest to get down to about 500
maybe something like 3 counters that didnt come from a winless wc or a winless ll or a winless bye or a winless w/o. theyll argew that this is the levle that shows you good enouhg to be wta ranked and theyll keep tinkerring until the number is grounded down
retired is tough tho as oponnents will retire tactical to deny competitors points but i bet theyd like to do something to deny points for low players getting points when a high rank player retire to if they can find a way too square that circle then theyll add it in as well

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Latest shadow rankings @ 5 November

WTA: https://www.tenniseurope.org/file/805668/?dl=1
ITF: https://www.tenniseurope.org/file/805667/?dl=1

GB have 23 women with a WTA shadow ranking (+ 1 to be ranked on 12 Nov) and 62 women with an ITF ranking.
16 GB women have both a WTA and ITF shadow ranking (+1 to gain a WTA ranking on 12 Nov).

Overall, there are 891 women with a shadow WTA ranking (44 women with a ranking of 847) and 2,403 women with a shadow ITF ranking.

Shadow
WTA
Ranking
Shadow
WTA
Points
Change
(actual to
shadow)
Notes
39KONTA Johanna13000
100BOULTER Katie6330
101WATSON Heather6280
153DART Harriet3920
164TAYLOR Gabriella3640
175SWAN Katie3261
195BROADY Naomi2934
233DUNNE Katy2504
374LUMSDEN Maia952
401ROBSON Laura8134
406GREY Sarah Beth8033
434BURRAGE Jodie67-23
455SILVA Eden594
477BARNETT Alicia5337
482CHRISTIE Freya5134
492MOORE Tara49-1
502WEBLEY-SMITH Emily4815
512JONES Francesca44-113
527MURRAY Samantha4030
657TAYLOR Ella18134
742APPLETON Emily11-233
764ARBUTHNOTT Emily9231
847MILLER Nell3352
-RADUCANU Emma-NRranking pending (21 pts, approx ranking 625)


Shadow ITF Rankings
Shadow
ITF
Ranking
Shadow
ITF
Points
15K
Tournaments
Notes
15APPLETON Emily46218Has WTA Ranking; 76 points to drop before year end
22JONES Francesca44211Has WTA Ranking; 104 points to drop before year end
110RADUCANU Emma2174WTA Ranking pending
113BURRAGE Jodie2148Has WTA Ranking; 72 points to drop before year end
177MOORE Tara1602Has WTA Ranking
179SILVA Eden1586Has WTA Ranking; 142 points to drop before year end
218WILLIAM Tiffany13414net 18 points add on 12/11
252LUMSDEN Maia1204Has WTA Ranking; 112 points to drop before year end
340WEBLEY-SMITH Emily927Has WTA Ranking
346MURRAY Samantha902Has WTA Ranking
378CHRISTIE Freya806Has WTA Ranking
424LINDH Emilie6614
445HILL Sasha613
468BARNETT Alicia588Has WTA Ranking
547POPESCU Anna4416
570PITAK Katarzyna418
612GILLAN Alice3518
755PITAK Aleksandra238
854YARDLEY Summer162
874DALEY Danielle165
978DART Harriet121Has WTA Ranking
978RICHARDSON Erin121
1010LAZIC Ema124
1089SAINSBURY Laura94
1104NJOZE Mirabelle98
1150COLLINS Ali84
1164TAYLOR Ella87Has WTA Ranking
1208MORTON Emily75
1227NICHOLLS Olivia61
1256DISSANAYAKE Tanysha62
1326JANSEN FIGUERAS Helena68
1327SONNEKUS-WILLIAMS Olivia69
1333KEENS Taro611
1336STUART Amelia612
1344MILLER Nell53Has WTA Ranking
1393BALL Julie57
1406TAYLOR Gabriella41Has WTA Ranking
1406HURST Emma41
1448GREY Sarah Beth42Has WTA Ranking
1569BUREK Mila32
1640MALONEY Eliz35
1654KONDRATOWICZ Joanna37
1692BISHOP Lauren21
1692RAWSON Nadia21
1692REUTER Kira21
1692SUBEV Victoria21
1692STAFF Holly21
1781MPUKUSA Kimberly Alinafe22
1781GHODRATI Lily22
1825MUGHAL Zarah22
1898TSIMBILAKIS Ellie24
1949ANANE Soumeya27
1974LAWRENCE Freia11
1974HOLTUM Louise11
1974EL SAYED Yasmina11
2115COMPSON Chloe12
2224CASTRO NINO Emely Paola13
2224JORGE Vaishali13
2307ELLIOTT Olivia14
2307BARNES Katherine14
2343MATOS SEQUEIRA FERNANDES Jizel15
2343GARSHONG Iman15


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