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Post Info TOPIC: The LTA


Tennis legend

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The LTA


What a mixed up bag of thinking.

It is obvious that a ranking has to be able to go down to be legitimate. If I am 8.1 and lose 20 matches to other 8.1s (or indeed to 9.2s), I am not an 8.1, I have to go down. And no matter how discouraging that is. After all, being too highly ranked and losing all my matches is even more discouraging.

The problem with youngsters not being able to get on the ladder because the seeding committee didn't know them could have been got round by replacing it with random seeding (if the rating is 'true', then all the players who have the same rating are (roughly) the same, and so random seeding would be fine).

The point is, as you say, that the rating must be true, genuine. And, yes, maybe you need more rungs on the ladder (certainly at the top end), or maybe your pyramid needs to be adjusted (so more at the lower end and less near the top end). But if you have a system where you effectively gum up the top end and shove everyone up into that very top end, then you're left with nothing of any worth.

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The Optimist wrote:

The LTA rankings/ratings systems are the result of well-meaning objectives - I just don't think they realised how people would game the system or the value people would put on the numbers associated with their name.  

When it was just a rating system, updated twice per year, the Competitions Department at the LTA received a lot of feedback indicating that juniors found it very demotivating not seeming to progress for a year or more.  This was particularly pertinent because tournaments were seeded by committee.  Players were sorted by rating and each group of players with the same rating were judged by the tournament organisers as to any seeding order.  The less well-known kids in any locality just felt they couldn't get off the starting blocks and that their improvement (which can be quite rapid in children if they decide to focus on the sport) just didn't get recognised.  Thus the rankings were introduced, to be run fortnightly, to give kids in particular a sense that they were making progress throughout the year.  Seedings at all LTA sanctioned events was to be done by rating sub-divided by ranking.  Hence the two systems and it seemed to work better for the juniors (particularly the younger ones) than a simple rating had.  And it made tournaments seem fairer too.  

Then they got feedback that after the first 3 months of any ratings period, many juniors simply stopped competing and withdrawals during tournaments rose sharply - particularly between players of the same rating.  Research showed that juniors did not want to risk losing a ratings rise that they already had in the bag and that they did not enjoy playing opponents at their own rating or just below in case it negatively impacted on their ability to move up a level.  It also showed that for many juniors, tennis matches had become about not losing rather than enjoyment and development.  So they decided that losses against an opponent of your own rating would no longer count as a negative in the ratings recalculations.  They also introduced an interim ratings run in between the two twice-yearly ones.  These enable those who have already got the right win-loss ratio to move up after 3 months with this new improved rating to be used as the base for the next 'main' ratings recalculation.  The aim of all these changes was to get juniors to play consistently throughout the year and to encourage players to have a more positive attitude towards competing.  All good intentions but it clearly has worked out in unexpected ways!


Thanks,  The O.

Sounds like it all needs a very carefullly considered root and branch overhaul, a blank canvas as it were, rather than just continually applying sticking plaster to problems as they are seen to arise. That can end up a bit messy.



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News of the LTA losing money, the closure of all the regional offices and lots of other good news :(

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46102307

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Love the "new vision", such radical ideas   Is that saying that these were not part of the old vision ?

Unfortunately probably true. Well now follow through in making it much more than words.



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Tennis legend

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I liked steven's tweet, effectively saying:

well, at least that loss can't be put down to hosting too many ITF events..... :(

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Coup Droit wrote:

News of the LTA losing money, the closure of all the regional offices and lots of other good news :(

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/46102307


The 10% fall in participation is particularly alarming considering the LTA has been 'putting participation at the centre of all we do' in recent years. Sport England will not be impressed which could put extra pressure on finances on top of reduced handout from Wimbledon  and reduced sponsorship post Aegon. The LTA should really be reviewing how much the grass court Wimbledon shoulder events are costing them as they look for too lavish and costly for what they are.

The 'new vision' is so weak and just a repeat of what they have been saying for years. Needs a thorough review of how tennis is delivered and played so as to make it fun, cheaper, less time consuming and more sociable for kids. For example the current format of entry level Team Tennis means matches can last 4 hours+ in addition to travel time. Most coaches see tennis as a gravy train to fleece the well off. Compare that to rugby where your kid gets an hours of training and an hour of matches every Sunday for £70 a year.

I am sure it is no coincidence that Judy Murray has given this interview at the same time as the LTA bombshell -

We are competing with more distractions for our kids now than ever before. They have computer games, social media and so much more to lure them away from sport and we have to try and reverse that trend.

If they try tennis and feel it is boring, too difficult or too cold, they will go and do something else. Thats the reality. We cant just rely on people showing up to play our sport and we have to work harder to get people playing and keeping them there. Too many are slipping away from tennis at the moment and we have to reverse that trend.

To do that, we need to find a way to make it cheap and doable for everyone to play as there has always been a feeling that it is a sport for the elite.

One-on-one lessons will always be expensive, especially if you are adding court hire on top of costs. If you come from countries like Scotland or Ireland, where the weather is often an issues, you can pay up to £20-per-hour just to hire a court and that is before getting a coach in for a lesson. Those costs quickly become prohibitive for a lot of people.

That is why I always embrace doing tennis lessons with a large number of people on the court. It makes it affordable and can be very enjoyable when a large group get together and share an experience. If you have 18 people in a lesson, it reduces the cost per person and that offers the scope to bring more people into the sport.

When you look at a one-on-one lesson a coach with a basket of balls, it can look daunting. It may feel like everyone is looking at me from the sidelines and I would not want that pressure if I was trying a sport for the first time. We have to work harder to sell our sport in a world where there are a variety of factor pulling people of all ages away from tennis.

https://www.tennis365.com/tennis-features/exclusive-judy-murray-urges-tennis-to-shed-its-elitist-tag-and-open-its-doors-to-the-masses/

 



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All-time great

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History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.



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Tennis legend

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Seemingly, the LTA put together an expert panel to advise on British tennis.

Under Lloyd, and to advise him, there were:

Tim Henman, Jamie Delgado and Sam Smith.

But supposedly:

"the group struggled to schedule meaningful meetings with everyone present"

and so Sam Smith has quit.

That's only three/four people !!! They can't even arrange a meeting at a time that they all can make???

Read it and weep.....

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All-time great

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Coup Droit wrote:

Seemingly, the LTA put together an expert panel to advise on British tennis.

Under Lloyd, and to advise him, there were:

Tim Henman, Jamie Delgado and Sam Smith.

But supposedly:

"the group struggled to schedule meaningful meetings with everyone present"

and so Sam Smith has quit.

That's only three/four people !!! They can't even arrange a meeting at a time that they all can make???

Read it and weep.....


 They don't even have to be in person either - Skype or phone in or whatever.



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All-time great

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Definiition of expert

Ex = has been

spurt = drip under pressure wink



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Tennis legend

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C'mon, Tim's golf is rather time consuming.

Seriously, that is indeed quite ridiculous regarding these four's failure to meet and indeed they don't physically have to be in the same place if for some reasons that is so surprisingly difficult.

Very often where there is a will there is a way. The will has apparently been lacking in some quarter / quarters.



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Satellite level

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The LTA needs a massive dose of reality and a total overhaul - the current format just doesn't achieve ie getting more players in at grass roots level and developing junior players (including those whose parents are not massively wealthy) to provide world class players for the future.

After the recent success of Sabrina Stocker in reaching the final 5 in the apprentice, maybe all those with a vested interest in the future of British tennis need to flood the show with 'tennis entrepreneurs' and persuade no nonsense Sugar to come up with a viable alternative to the LTA ;0)



-- Edited by Elegant Point on Friday 21st of December 2018 08:28:59 PM

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Club Coach

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I must admit I didn't watch the Apprentice, but from her website Sabrina just runs some junior tournaments. What exactly was she trying to sell Mr Sugar? The junior tournament market is already massively overcrowded and the LTA strictly control the scheduling of such events.

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Hall of fame

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Yes I could not work out what her business was?

It seemed to be running fun family tournaments (fancy dress etc). However all junior serious tennis palyers would not be interested in that, and can't be that mny others who want to play tournaments but dont take it seriously. And as you say the LTA have it all sewn up anyway.

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All-time great

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From looking at some of the events in the Lta site, she seems to be tournament Director for some of those?

If I recall her pitch on the apprentice involved growing into America, as if the US doesnt have loads of such events already. Tone of the criticisms of her was she had no permanent location and was thus reliant on local clubs buying what was effectively just an ad hoc idea.

I would say it was pretty much uninvestable, using language from dragons den!

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