Girls: Nike Junior Nationals 2017 (U12/U14/U16/U18) - Week 34

DavidC · Tennis legend

Girls: Nike Junior Nationals 2017 (U12/U14/U16/U18) - Week 34

Hilda · Social player

Coup Droit wrote:
I have no resentment, cya, about some parents having the means/inclination to go to an ITF and others not.
Indeed, the fact that parents have to, in order to get the experience you mention, as opposed to having plenty of domestic 'experience' available, is a separate problem.
And obviously everyone will have discussed pros and cons before deciding.
But that is the issue.
As The O says about the States, and as is true in France (both being countries with far better tennis set-ups, and success, than the UK), the nationals should be prioritised and valued by the federation, so that there is basically zero discussion to be had about pros and cons, it should speak for itself.

Unfortunately in the UK there is little incentive to play Nationals for the 16's and 18's.

Prize money of any significant magnitude is not on offer and the points hall for the 18's winner can be achieved by playing British Tour events.
Recent events at Sutton have proven that, for some players, the Nationals would have been fairly pointless from a development and progress perspective.

The big picture should really only include the consideration of whether matches at any event are beneficial. If the answer is no because of grade or entries then why be there?

ITF events offer a better opportunity to be pushed to the point of losing. As cya is aware, stepping up the grades in ITF events does make things tough. However, if its tough and you're learning then keep at it. If it isn't tough then you're probably gaining nothing. To me that explains the absence of one of the top players very clearly!

If my understanding of how the LTA "works" is correct then I can't see how they can prevent a player from entering any event. The exception being a tactical invite to an LTA supported overseas event or special training camp. During the week of the Nationals I'm not aware that any of the players are participating in either type of camp.
It's probably as case of "no extra points on offer", "no guarantee of tough enough matches", "last chance for a holiday", "last chance to get some ITF events in before school restarts" - 16's and 18's player are at that tough academic period. You can come up with a whole load more but the final decision will be made by parents - as previously mentioned, LTA funding is not what it was and the end result is that they will have less power to control where and when there preferred players compete.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Congratulations to both Lillian and Andrea the U18 and U14 national champions on the girls side, both coming through closely fought semi-finals. Something that will always be on their tennis CV.

Players develop at different rates and there are a number of reasons for this, many of which are out of the control of the player and their families, physical development and resources being just a couple. I think it is right that their is a national championship at which the best players in the country can show case their talent.

OK there are a few players missing and for all the reasons Hilda describes it may not be the opportunity that every player with aspirations of playing as high a level of tennis they can wants to take as the doors it opens aren't quite big enough for those aspirations even so for those that do by winning it, it will open some doors and bring opportunity to get to as high a level as possible, potentially better funded tennis scholarships in stronger conferences, confidence to step up earlier to play British tour, futures qualifying etc... all eventually adding to an increasing pool of very talented British tennis players, playing perhaps even coaching high level tennis as adults

Congratulations again to the winners!

cya · Strong Club Player

Congratulations to the winners. Great achievement.
Its good to see other players coming through the fold and getting the opportunity to display their potential. Some of the 'missing few players' (in the male and female events) have at one time or another already won the National Championships - some even at two age groups , so have that accolade on their CVs . JD I think won the 12 &14s National Champs and GH won the 14 &16 National Champs if I'm not mistaken. Luckily for them that was the time when the winners of the National Champs got a trip to the Nike Junior Tournament in Florida at the end of the year in addition to a £1000 coaching bonus. That's no longer the prize on offer unfortunately. Be that as it may, one can therefore see the 'bright side' of this and say it's about time to 'pass on the baton' to a fresh crop of players. I won't be surprised if some people on this forum have never heard of (or only know little of ) the players that competed in this year's nationals.

DavidC · Tennis legend

Titles go to Erin and Eva in the other finals

U16 F

(1) Erin Richardson d. Holly Staff 6-1 7-5

U12 F

(2) Eva Shaw d. (1) Jaquelyn Ogunwale 6-3 6-2

tharris · Intermediate Club Player

Well done Eva! I liked what I saw from the YouTube videos from Auray earlier this year. A nice serve for her age, and a good, aggressive mindset.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Lovely photo of Eva (and Luca too)

pbs.twimg.com/media/DIGhsprXkAALSoj.jpg

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Very interesting interview with Bill Mountford, the head of Junior tennis tournaments in the US:

www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp

Just a few clips that support fully what has been said above about what national championships should be all about:

"CL: What was behind the decision to expand the draws to include 32 additional players in the 16s and 18s Clay Courts and Nationals?

BM: It was a little bit of a pendulum swinging back in the other direction, with the intent to create more national play opportunities for more players.....
It was also in recognition that these crown jewels, these gold standard tournaments like San Diego and Kalamazoo, are such aspirational events. They are showcase events..."

CL: The National Indoor tournament is back on the national junior schedule this year, over the Thanksgiving holiday. Why was that tournament revived?

BM: A lot of traditionalists wondered why we ever got rid of the tournament in the first place.... It's at a time of year when no one's going to school over that Thanksgiving weekend.
It also goes hand in glove with the ideal that there are more play opportunities for our best players, at a gold standard national championship....."

indiana · Tennis legend

Certainly for any U18 winners sure it's nice to have in the CV and you can only beat what's in front of you so well done to them. But let's be frank, it's far from the top echelons. There are rather more than a few top U18s missing, there's a ruddy flotila at the top end missing. And as for opening doors and potentially better scolarships surely American colleges say would look into things a lot more than that and see just how many of the top juniors don't play British nationals and just how the players really do generally compare. And they've always got yea old UTRs

It's all such a pity. Of course it's understandable that basically just about all top juniors miss the nationals because they are sooo not an occasion with sooo little incentive. The U18 nationals should be a real biggee but they have been allowed to drift away to something bearing no relation to a true national championship unlike so much more in other countries that know a little bit about tennis

Thank you CD for the above post regarding the USA on top of the information you have previously given regarding France.

I am pleased that the lower age groups, particularly the U12s and U14s are still so worthy of being called "National Tennis Championships", but the U18s are a joke.

-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 27th of August 2017 12:24:21 PM

skibbarriz · Strong Club Player

The LTA promoting pictures of these players and calling them "national champions" is disingenuous. Thsi undermining and lack of value placed on the national championships is not what you want to see from the organization responsible for building a stronger foundation of tennis in this country.

We have age groups in our national championships where the only players who compete are those not good enough to not be there. The LTA are too desperate. Too short-termist. At the price of building a solid tennis structure and culture in the country for young players. Effectively telling developing players that they exist outside of national junior tennis creates disconnect and sends them all the wrong messages at that age. It's the wrong culture.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Coup Droit wrote:
Very interesting interview with Bill Mountford, the head of Junior tennis tournaments in the US:

www.tennisrecruiting.net/article.asp

Just a few clips that support fully what has been said above about what national championships should be all about:

"CL: What was behind the decision to expand the draws to include 32 additional players in the 16s and 18s Clay Courts and Nationals?

BM: It was a little bit of a pendulum swinging back in the other direction, with the intent to create more national play opportunities for more players.....
It was also in recognition that these crown jewels, these gold standard tournaments like San Diego and Kalamazoo, are such aspirational events. They are showcase events..."

CL: The National Indoor tournament is back on the national junior schedule this year, over the Thanksgiving holiday. Why was that tournament revived?

BM: A lot of traditionalists wondered why we ever got rid of the tournament in the first place.... It's at a time of year when no one's going to school over that Thanksgiving weekend.
It also goes hand in glove with the ideal that there are more play opportunities for our best players, at a gold standard national championship....."

The US is a significant proportion of a continent drawing on a population of about 300 million including some tennis hot beds of affluence and perfect climate, as such the junior standard (boys 12-32 JITF, girls 1-23)is not quite so far off that of perhaps a very good European Grade 1 ITF junior as that on offer at a British National tournament, only Katie Swan and Emily Appleton would qualify, no boys.

Our top 8, 18 year olds would span WTA350 to JITF 189 on the girls side and junior ITF 55 to 139 on the boys side (equivalent to the strength of the seeds in the FROMM Swiss junior trophy a Grade 2 but with a rapid drop off in standard if you are going to expand to 32). Rohehampton for me already does the job why duplicate it everyone and a few more compliments of wilcards (who would not qualify for an 8 player tournament e.g. Hamish Stuart) was there and everyone got a really good test

There are lots of opportunities for high quality competition across the US and there were concerns that the better players from Southern California may not travel the continent to Florida, interestingly on the same page is an interview with Tracey Austin talking about how she has introduced her sons to sport. She has 3 all play tennis but only 1 has chosen to pursue the sport to as higher level as possible. Her experience trying to meet the needs of 3 boys one being an athlete suggests to me that flexibilty is essential and the national championships are fine as they are, I don't think the top 8 British junior players are missing out in any way and those that do play now gain, surely the agenda has to be player development In the broadest sense.

-- Edited by Oakland2002 on Sunday 27th of August 2017 04:55:45 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes, it should be about player development in the broad sense. And that's the problem - our player development is feeble. And that's partly due to problems shown up by the national championships.
I think you're looking at it the wrong way round. Yes, if all our best players played this year, it would be a bit spotty (although you'd use a staggered draw so it wouldn't be as bad as that).

But it would be part of raising the standards in general, overall, not just focusing on two or three. The rewards would come later.