LTA Strategy

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

LTA Strategy

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

I've started compiling this list, as you can see 3 wins also happened last year at the AO, and we only had 2 wins at the US in 2018 !

Australian Open	Men	1	2020	Evans
Australian Open	Ladies	2	2020	Dart, Watson
US Open	Men	2	2019	Evans
US Open	Ladies	4	2019	Konta
Wimbledon	Men	5	2019	Evans (2), Edmund, Norrie, Clarke
Wimbledon	Ladies	7	2019	Watson, Dart (2), Konta (4)
French Open	Men	1	2019	Edmund
French Open	Ladies	5	2019	Konta
Australian Open	Men	1	2019	Evans
Australian Open	Ladies	2	2019	Boulter, Konta
US Open	Men	2	2018	Murray, Norrie
US Open	Ladies	0	2018
Wimbledon	Men	2	2018	Edmund
Wimbledon	Ladies	3	2018	Konta, Swan, Boulter
French Open	Men	3	2018	Edmund (2), Norrie
French Open	Ladies	1	2018	Watson
Australian Open	Men	5	2018	Edmund
Australian Open	Ladies	1	2018	Konta
US Open	Men	3	2017	Norrie, Edmund (2)
US Open	Ladies	0	2017

-- Edited by Born2WinTennis on Thursday 23rd of January 2020 05:31:58 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Great stats Born2Win - thank you very much.

Spireman · Club Coach

Hope this is right place for this...I see the new world tennis number which is replacing lta ratings is going to run from 1 to 40, with one decimal place. One is very good (Djokovic etc), 40 is a beginner. My question is does anyone know for sure when this is coming in? The lta still vaguely say 'later in 2020'. Given that it is replacing ratings which are main acceptance criteria for Brit Tours (for most players) surely there needs to be a decent notice period as there will definitely be winners and losers with a new system. I am guessing Sept 2020? Secondly the nationals u18 being in april with the winner getting wc into Wimbledon qualifying has so far attracted most of top 50 2002 and younger girls to enter, so maybe that will be an improvement over previous years.

junior · Intermediate Club Player

This idea is silly, needed to be said, nothing more to add

Born2WinTennis · Club Coach

It's far from silly in my opinion. The current ratings system is very poor and in some cases actually stops people playing tennis (when they have their win ratio and don't want to risk qualifying losses until the mid or end of season ratings run). The new system will be much more accurate and much more of a live indicator because it will update in near real-time.

It was due out next month, but obviously pushed back now with no firm date, just "later in 2020". Is world ranking then LTA ranking not the acceptance for british tour? Or does it only go to british ranking when tied on rating? Your new ITN rating will be based on a players current rating so no matter when it comes out it should not change acceptances greatly.

Spireman · Club Coach

Thanks for last comment. For Brit Tours acceptance is first any world then itf ranking but then rating, which is how most are accepted, those have no world ranking of any kind. I didn't think the WTN was going to be based in any way on current rating. Rather, like utr (but on different scale which is the other way up to utr...) it will be based on recent results. Possibly even going back 2 or 3 years. The algorithm will be different to utr and I hope it will take account of games, sets and wins (I think utr doesn't give extra credit for wins, so in a 0-6 7-6 7-6 match the loser does better on utr than the winner. However I do think games are important: usually someone who loses 4 and 6 to player A is stronger than another player who loses 0 and 1 to same player.

I agree ratings aren't good for reasons above and also because they don't go down for juniors and barely do for adults so this doesn't always mean the strongest players are accepted in tournaments.

junior · Intermediate Club Player

Born2WinTennis wrote:
It's far from silly in my opinion. The current ratings system is very poor and in some cases actually stops people playing tennis (when they have their win ratio and don't want to risk qualifying losses until the mid or end of season ratings run). The new system will be much more accurate and much more of a live indicator because it will update in near real-time.
Your new ITN rating will be based on a players current rating so no matter when it comes out it should not change acceptances greatly.

Hi Born2Win,

Firstly to point out the ITN is barely a new idea, it's been around for years and was mostly used to try and compare foreign ratings etc (to see if any foreign players rating was decent and would be of use to the LTA considering most of their players throughout the years have not been "home grow players", if not then they were often buried). Now everyone thinks its a brand new idea and its the latest fantasy that will solve all the LTA's problems, this is unlikely.

If, you have been around long enough you would have seen several of these LTA rating shake ups, also you would have seen how they have all failed or there would be a functioning one, this to me (only my opinion) seems like if you throw enough fecal matter shall we say, some of it might stick. To lord the latest idea simply on the last idea being a failure as you say often (I remember even as a kid myself 15 years ago) leaves players sitting on their match percentage rather than playing matches. There are many problems with something like this, probably more than several the LTA is blind towards and how its been like this for so long is inexplicable.

Either way it seems very unlikely the new LTA idea will work as the problem runs deeper than what it appears, the problem is with the system believing in matches are won being able to throw ones rating at the opponent or a higher ranking will guarantee "professional level". This fairytale is acceptable to believe at under 10 level but not from the heads of our NGB's. None of these promises are accurate and the LTA needs to understand this, their lack of creation of players comes from serious training flaws etc, often supported by an extremely concerning opinion on their own standing in the tennis world. Personally I know guys in Spain who have beaten (Nadal, Murray, Almagro) and are still ranked lower than under 12 players. Ratings and ranking at the end of the day are but numbers, no one has ever beaten anyone because of their number, they've beaten them with the racquet. Personally, all 8.2 of me wouldn't mind taking on a 1.1 in the way of one of these fantastic doubles players we have (Inglot, Murray etc) at the end of the day would that still only count as a 1 win against someone my rating?

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

I believe other countries, including the USA and several other European ones, are adopting this system. Regardless of the value of ratings/rankings per se, it would seem daft to stick out on our own with our existing system. I agree a rating/ranking is just a number and doesn't always reflect a player's standard on any given day but it is a fair way of deciding tournament entry and seeding. Rather that than the old seeding committees favouring their own club/local players above all others!

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Given the recent success of college tennis players on the pro tour and the new ATP and ITA collaboration to accelerate the professional pathway for players in the US collegiate system, should the LTA be encouraging players to continue with their education and take the college tennis route? Even going as far as providing top up funding (100% scholarships are rare on the mens side due to title IX), travel budget or training in the college holidays. Would this give more bang for buck than picking a few very young players, removing them from home and hot housing them in academies ?

collegetennisranks.com/rankings/playersontour/atpsingles
www.wearecollegetennis.com/2023/01/18/atp-and-ita-unite-to-accelerate-professional-development/

Lambda · Challenger level

The LTA do have a support programme for college players, including a route onto the development programmes post graduation, feed up WCs, access to LTA coaches, and age exemptions on the tournament bonus scheme. There is further support on the men's side.

https://www.lta.org.uk/compete/performance/player-pathway/ncaa-support/

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Lambda wrote:
The LTA do have a support programme for college players, including a route onto the development programmes post graduation, feed up WCs, access to LTA coaches, and age exemptions on the tournament bonus scheme. There is further support on the men's side.

https://www.lta.org.uk/compete/performance/player-pathway/ncaa-support/

Thanks for reply - had completely forgotten about the pre college grad part of this!

Long list of selection criteria. Wondering if players with potential, but not necessarily meeting the selection list such as Paul Jubb had any LTA support whilst at college? Thought one of the reasons he went to college a year early was financial? Or if he only received LTA ££ support once hed won the mens singles championship in 2019?

Always thought LTA financial support should have a means tested element. Limited funds could then be channeled to help players from non traditional tennis backgrounds (such as Paul) reach their potential.

-- Edited by Elegant Point on Sunday 22nd of January 2023 11:08:17 AM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

This is a report of a conversation I had today:

I was talking to the mother of an East European girl
She explained how her daughter was one of the most promising young juniors over there, age 9
At a specialist tennis school
Winning this, that and the other
But they were 'forced' to leave East Europe, basically for political reasons. And came to the UK.
They tried to find training etc, within their price range (and they're not dirt poor)
Impossible
So the girl barely plays tennis in the UK
(She goes to Europe in summer and plays a bit over there but that's it....)

Make of it what you want, just reporting it back, but.... ::((

Elegant Point · Satellite level

Was chatting to a friend and their adult child who is a tennis coach working through the LTA coaching levels (both parents are coaches).

Gist of the conversation below, N.B. the LTA have recently changed the course content & assessment for their coaching levels:

Eg Level 2 www.lta.org.uk/4a6679/siteassets/roles/coaches/image/instructor-roadmap-1.png

Becoming a tennis coach through the LTA coaching levels is often a challenging and disheartening journey, particularly given the length and often tedious nature of the courses ( L2 video assessment has ~60 check boxes). Its also expensive and every time you fail an exam (often for inconsistent reasons), it costs ££ to retake.

Many aspiring female coaches find themselves overwhelmed by the demands of the program, leading to a significant drop-out rate as they become disillusioned with the process. Allegedly some extra help for women is now available.

This situation is further compounded by the requirement for experienced coaches from outside the UK with no formal coaching qualification (many have degrees from US colleges and were D1 level players), who may have years of practical knowledge and success, to begin at Level 1 due to the lack of recognition for their experience. If they have formal non UK coaching qualifications, these are examined on a case by case basis - if you have a PhD from France, you dont have to do another PhD in the UK, your qualification is accepted.

Such a policy seems shortsighted, as it not only discourages passion and dedication among seasoned players, particularly women, but also stifles the growth and diversity of coaching talent in the sport. The LTAs approach risks losing valuable contributors to the tennis community who could inspire and mentor the next generation of players.

Friends offspring has become so fed up with the new tedious system theyve given up coaching and gone travelling. No current plans to return to coaching.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Really interesting, EP

And I'd heard similar complaints - along the lines of the existing coaching assessors seemingly deliberately try to make it as hard as possible (focusing on daft things), in order to maintain their superiority and the pecking order

I couldn't believe some of the things they have to tick - and some of the things that they don't have to tick (show proof of having run a fun and motivating lesson, for instance)

I also am horrified, often, by the level of coaching you see at some places in the UK - one youngish coach at Sutton was obviously being paid to give an hour lesson to a reasonably able boy of about 10, which was right next to a match I was watching, so I saw it all. And I swear he spent over half of the time talking to the boy at the net. Not sure the lad was listening, I think he'd come to play tennis, but that wasn't happening

I'm only familiar with the lower level coaching levels in France but I know that those courses are quite straight-forward, quick and actually quite enjoyable

They're also cheap/free, as normally the clubs pay for it i.e. whichever club you belong to will pay for the course on the basis that you'll then take some of the junior sessions at some time (same applies to getting your umpire's licence, for instance, your club pays for it and then you umpire a few matches that need umpiring)