It's interesting, Jon

And ties in quite strongly with what I'm talking about

Just to add:

Firstly, I know that there are some decent unis. And I do know that departments can vary wildly (i.e. some of the cases I know are lecturer driven, some department driven and some Uni driven)

I also know one excellent uni in London that is holding out strongly in its rules/regs/allowable practices. I applaud them.

But, I also know that many universities are wilfully blind to the problem.

Being in contact every day with students from other unis, in London and across the country, I know that it is utterly ridiculous (IMO) how many of the departments allow constant extensions and other help.

Also, I personally know students who have effectviely bought their dyslexia/anxiety disorder medical certifcates - they've told me and talk openly about it (as I'm not affiliated to their uni).

I am also asked on a weekly basis, if not daily, to actually do students' coursework for them. I say no (although about 4 years ago I did say 'yes' once, in a slightly special situtation, just to see how it worked - absolutely fine was the answer - as in, not absolutely fine from an ethical point of view, but zero problem for the uni or student)

But I know that when I say 'no' normally the students simply go and find someone else.

It obviously isn't plagiarism that can be detected as they buy original work.
But it's rampant, amongst students who can afford it - and it's not even that expensive - although the cheaper providers don't provide a very good standard (a lot is farmed out to India, say, where English is an official language) - which is quite amusing, as the finished product is poor, which is what the students deserve). These providers even advertise at Frenshers week sometimes and on student forums etc.

Maybe worst of all, I also know a few junior lecturers who provide the service themselves, privately so to speak.

Financially, for many students it's a no-brainer. The average price for a 2,500 piece of coursework is only about £300.
Now that coursework will often represent 50% of their final mark in that module (sometimes 100%) and, given that UK students are paying approx £15k a year, (not including lost earnings) and foreign students are paying far more, then £300 is chicken feed.

Unis are wilfully blind to the problem, IMO. One Principal, when confronted by his lecturer, who knew what was going on, said he didn't want to cause a problem as word would get round that his uni was being 'difficult' and they would lose all the foreign students they were getting from certain countries.

What hope?

christ wrote:

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Universities used to be places of learning - now they are profit centres.

I struggle with the egalitarian view that everyone should go to university - back when I was young and dinosaurs ruled only a small fraction of jobs needed a university degree, which was fortunate as only a small fraction of students were bright enough to obtain one.

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 My friends daughter got in with 1 A level at grade E. So many jobs require a degree now when historically 5 O levels at grade C or above would have been the requirement.

emmsie69 wrote:

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christ wrote:

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Universities used to be places of learning - now they are profit centres.

I struggle with the egalitarian view that everyone should go to university - back when I was young and dinosaurs ruled only a small fraction of jobs needed a university degree, which was fortunate as only a small fraction of students were bright enough to obtain one.

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 My friends daughter got in with 1 A level at grade E. So many jobs require a degree now when historically 5 O levels at grade C or above would have been the requirement.

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 Tony Blair set the ridiculous target in 1999 of 50% of people to go to uni   I also think the number of firsts handed out has massively increased. When I graduated back in the 90s,  two students out of 90 achieved a first, similar numbers when my husband graduated. When my daughter recently graduated a from a top 5 UK uni, I remember being amazed by the number of firsts!

When I was at school a friends sister needed 5 O levels  to go into nursing or  2 A levels in any subject for physiotherapy. No idea what is required for nursing now, but physiotherapy requires all As and Bs  

Drove up from London this afternoon and evening - listening to the mess around the Israeli and Gaza cease fire unfold. Wow. It turned from being about that to being about the process of British politics and , more generally, the politics of British politics. Couldnt make it up.

Under international law, you cannot strip someone of their citizenship if that leaves them stateless

However, you can do so if they have another nationality/citizenship (and I don't think it matter which one they had first or whatever)

Begum, apparently, is (was?) a Bangladeshi national

And that is the way the British government/court can remove her citizenship

Now, as I understand it, that Bangladeshi nationality is open to question but, assuming she has it/is entitled to it, then the court/government haven't done anything wrong, technically, in taking away her GB nationality

christ wrote:

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Begum's case is quite complicated, and seems to revolve around implicit nationality rather than explicit. As I understand it, Begum does not explicitly hold any nationality. A child does not automatically become a British citizen when born in the UK unless one of its parents is a UK citizen: as Begum's father resides in Bangladesh and her mother is believed to be a Bangladeshi national, the U.K. government has argued that under Bangladeshi law, this means Begum is automatically a citizen of Bangladesh (although she has never been there).

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 Thanks CD and christ. Just pondering - what if Bangladesh said, no, she isnt Bangladeshi, she has never been here or held Bangladesh nationality, or if she had dual rights - is it a case of who get's there first and strips her of her nationality, or could there be a fight at some higher court (if both relevant countries effectively dont want her?)

Not sure what the Bangladeshi's have said in this case, maybe they don't care?

Tanaqui wrote:

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As I understand it, the original immigration tribunal ruled she"s "a citizen of Bangladesh by descent", although I think she wasn't recognised as a Bangladeshi citizen by Bangladesh at that point and I seem to recall the government of Bangladesh making some diplomatic noises that suggested they wouldn't grant her Bangladeshi citizenship. (Though I haven't dug up a source on that with just a quick poke around.)

 

-- Edited by Tanaqui on Friday 23rd of February 2024 03:44:29 PM

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 Thanks Tanaqui - which makes me wonder, if Bangladesh and the UK say we both don't want her, she's yours...how does that get decided? What is the higher body that rules, something within the UN? Given that someone can't be made state-less, and if both candidate countries don't want someone, there needs to be some process or legal body that can eventually rule. Putting aside Begum, for anyone.

Or?