Dan Cox

Mark1968 · Intermediate Club Player

Dan Cox

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Interesting, Mark1968.

I have no idea about the cars our players drive (never see them, and cars don't mean much to me) but someone else I know who is on tour was also making the comment that two players at least, (he mentioned two in particular), drove VERY swish cars and yet constantly complained that they weren't being funded sufficiently by the LTA. It's true that it begs a question or three . . .

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

No idea whatsoever about Dan's wheels, but Tara also drives a very swish car - provided by a sponsor. All may not be as it seems in this department.

EddietheEagle · County player

Mark1968 wrote:
Sorry 'all rounder' but Dan was not brilliant in Glasgow last week. His capitulation from a winning position twice in his Q-F ( not for the first time against a number 1 seed in a challenger ) is typical that most of our guys of this age don't progress further than that stage of a challenger. Most of us on here are happy for one of our players to get to a 2nd round of a challenger which is not good enough for players of this age, and herein lies the problem.
Dan, who I support and have sympathy with is struggling to make tennis pay, but can afford to drive an expensive private plated BMW, I think a closer look at priorities is called for!
As for our other mid 20's guys if we are honest with ourselves we know they are never going to be top 150 singles players. Some need to pair up more in doubles ( what happened to the successful Corrie / Smethurst partnership ) to make it pay.
In saying this the LTA cuts have effectively closed the doors to the younger guys as well, they will need family support if available.

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 04:09:10 PM

-- Edited by Mark1968 on Tuesday 10th of February 2015 04:18:28 PM

Gotta share Mark's view. If that comment about a private plate BMW is correct, it rather undermines Mr Cox's lament.

We have a peculiar situation with tennis in this country where literally everything to do with the game revolves around the good old LTA. No one seems capable of exercising any independent initiative, (aside from that singular beacon that is A1 Tennis Academy). The LTA acts as a giant crutch and I find it risible that no one or any group anywhere, has the gumption to organise their own affairs - like a futures or challenger tournament, or even an individual's career. The hapless LTA has slowly evolved into its present NHS-style state - everyone leans on it.

A healthy sports federation concentrates on regulation and promotion, not running people's lives or providing safety nets for journeymen.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

I understand why tournaments are not independently organised - ITF rules say the have to be pitched for and underwritten by a national association. Such associations can then put the events out for sponsorship. The LTA have done this by getting Aegon to sponsor all of them as part of a bigger commercial package.

Otherwise, I agree the LTA has very centralising tendencies and an urge to be in control. You mention A1 Tennis Academy, but I have recently been told that Northwood, where so many of our good women/girls train, is not in fact an HPC but a privately funded initiative completely independent from the LTA. Their website doesn't shed any light on this although it has a bit about its founders. If true, it shows things can be done successfully away from the mother ship - maybe things are starting to change?

EddietheEagle · County player

The vast majority of tournaments worldwide have little or nothing to do with national federations aside from the narrow issue of providing the necessary licence. In some countries the federation will sell the Davis Cup venue rights to the highest/best bid put forward by private clubs. We're like a nanny state here, by comparison, and the game suffers accordingly.

There is another way and it's good to hear of initiatives like Northwood. We need more of them. And rich entrepreneurs with a love for the game.

baxi2 · Lower Club Player

The LTA has a responsibility to support any person they take on with the promise of making them into a top level player ! They should not ask a child to sacrifice their education and personal life for the sport of Tennis on the grounds that they are a top level junior only to later withdraw funding when they change the goalposts. This is nothing short of scandalous !

The LTA takes ONLY OUR ELITE tennis juniors and has a terrible record of producing players and so to back out of what should be their duty part way through the journey which is probably down to the failure of the organisation and leaders is beyond contempt ! disbelief

Another contributing factor to this unfairness is that the LTA took these high level juniors under their wing while telling them they would receive less or no help if they trained anywhere else other than the NTC (or The Queens Club before that). These kids were told that the Federation way was the only way ! Even though it could be agreed that spoiling the kids is the wrong way, the players should not have been dumped after being signed up on contracts under the premise of a great future with the federation !

-- Edited by baxi2 on Wednesday 11th of February 2015 09:55:01 AM

EddietheEagle · County player

If you want to run a tournament, there shouldn't be any block put on you, nor for that matter any legal obligation to accommodate the needs of an over-arching 'corporate partner' i.e Aegon. Provided you meet the criteria - which for 99% of pro tournaments are set by the pro tours (WTA/ATP) and not by national federations - then you should be given every encouragement to proceed and given a slot in the national calendar.

Take a look at the Spanish pro circuit. Dozens of local tournaments, each individually organised and promoted with their own local flavour and band of supporters and sponsors. Nothing 'corporate' about them at all; it's anarchical by comparison. These tournaments stand or fall on merit.

EddietheEagle · County player

baxi2 wrote:
The LTA has a responsibility to support any person they take on with the promise of making them into a top level player !

Sadly perhaps, life doesn't work like that. I know of no example where any federation, anywhere, has made a top player. Federations can't make top players. If they could, we'd all be world champions.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

The Optimist wrote:
No idea whatsoever about Dan's wheels, but Tara also drives a very swish car - provided by a sponsor. All may not be as it seems in this department.

Fair point. But if the car's provided by a sponsor, that's not far off the same end result. i.e. it's a big extra 'income' that's not mentioned on your ATP/WTA site, say.

Net, net, if you're driving a very swish car and you've bought it yourself, Mark's questions re moaning about income hold true. And if it's provided by a sponsor, then the income number you're quoting is wrong because a car (especially a swish car) represents a very large payment-in-kind (how much would it cost to rent a car like that for a year?).

BeefyDeedz · Pro player

Is the Aegon deal an exclusive arrangement or merely the provision of funding for a set amount of tournaments?

EddietheEagle · County player

I prefer the Jerzy Janowicz approach myself - sleep in your car on the journey to the world top 20.

bleacherreport.com/articles/1397416-jerzy-janowicz-a-giant-comes-out-to-play-david-ferrer-at-the-paris-masters

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

BeefyDeedz wrote:
Is the Aegon deal an exclusive arrangement or merely the provision of funding for a set amount of tournaments?

My understanding is that they have the exclusive rights to be the lead sponsor at all British events (wimbie and O2 aside obviously). They get the cream of the grass court season but also have to put funding into other pro events here, plus support of the domestic calendar both junior and senior.

EddietheEagle · County player

BeefyDeedz wrote:
Is the Aegon deal an exclusive arrangement or merely the provision of funding for a set amount of tournaments?

Does this answer your question?

http://www.lta.org.uk/News/2013/June/2013-06-10/Aegon-extends-agreement-as-the-Lead-Partner-of-British-Tennis/

While the LTA nurses British tennis in its mollycoddling way along the road to ruination, courtesy of their lead partner's money, numbers of the playing public - the ultimate criterion to judge a sport's success in my opinion, continue to drop. All this with Andy Murray winning Wimbledon.

-- Edited by EddietheEagle on Wednesday 11th of February 2015 09:13:20 AM

paulisi · Tennis legend

I'd take Dan C's comments with a pinch of salt. I think some of the costs quoted have been exaggerated.