Week 46 - ATP World Tour Finals - London (Hard)

indiana · Tennis legend

RE: Week 46 - ATP World Tour Finals - London (Hard)

RJA · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
Hey, Andy, you put in a huge effort to get here, While there may have been some element of wanting to play more matches, 6 weeks in a row told its own story.

So you might as well play well when you are here. The crowd will be shouting "We want Ferrer !" soon.

Sorry to be flippant but what were you expecting?

Nothing he has done this year suggested that he was going to be a significant force in this tournament.

TMH · Futures qualifying

RJA wrote:
indiana wrote:
Hey, Andy, you put in a huge effort to get here, While there may have been some element of wanting to play more matches, 6 weeks in a row told its own story.

So you might as well play well when you are here. The crowd will be shouting "We want Ferrer !" soon.
Sorry to be flippant but what were you expecting?
Nothing he has done this year suggested that he was going to be a significant force in this tournament.

I disagree. He's shown plenty of flashes - particularly recently - of the level he was at 1-2 years ago. Sadly they've been a bit too few and far between, although his recent form left me quite hopeful. Sadly he looks to have regressed back to his level pre-US Open.

indiana · Tennis legend

Err, there's force and this. I did expect a bit better.

But, yes, in spite of his recent efforts we are talking about a guy who in 12 mandatoty Slams and Masters tournaments this year got past the QF stage once, his French Open SF and hardly beat a top 10 player.

Given that, it is maybe remarkable that he arrived here as WR 6.

Oh to next year. At least ( don't look here ! ) he seems to have generally got more appetite back.

DF · Tennis legend

Andy has shown how good a player he can be in recent tournaments.No need to be so negative about our best player.

RJA · Hall of fame

DF wrote:
Andy has shown how good a player he can be in recent tournaments.No need to be so negative about our best player.

Recent tournaments have been okay but you have to take them in perspective.

RJA · Hall of fame

Fortunately Nishikori has been generous enough to invite Andy back into the match with some quite laughable net play.

indiana · Tennis legend

Disageee with RJA if you want ( I often do :) ), but if he wants to make "negative" / critical judgements about Andy, by far our best player or not, so be it, and just challenge his points if you want.

I think that Andy has shown better recent form at times, but overall he has had, for some often discusssed understandable reasons, a relatively poor year for him. So given his year as a whole has had that one SF when just about everyone has turned up, I understand some limited expectations.

I come here to discuss, not to eulogise.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Well that was very disappointing to watch. I had a nasty feeling that after all the effort to qualify for here, he might bomb when he got here. I think that was the one round robin match I had the most hope of him winning. We'll see.

indiana · Tennis legend

We can but hope, Madeline, but yes that was the RR match I too most thought he would win, a bit ahead of the Raonic one. And a straight sets defeat could prove unhelpful even if he wins a match or two.

Be following on Tuesday again, hoping, willing...

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

...praying ...

steven · Tennis legend

RR1: (5) Andy Murray WR 6 lost to (4) Kei Nishikori (JPN) WR 5 (= CH) by 4 & 4

H2H was 3-0, now 3-1

RR2: (5) Andy Murray WR 6 v (7) Milos Raonic (CAN) WR 8 (CH 6 in Jul) - Tuesday n/b 20.00 GMT

H2H 1-3 (+ a walkover each) - Andy last won at the 2012 USO, Raonic last won in Indian Wells this year

RR3: (5) Andy Murray WR 6 v (2) Roger Federer (SUI) WR 2 (CH 1 in 2004)

H2H 11-11 but 0-3 in WTFs (0-2 since it has been in London)

korriban · Challenger level

Was at the O2 today with the kids and we were lucky enough to "draw" an Andy match. Or so we thought. The atmosphere as the match progressed got more and more incredulous all around us.....this wasn't the Andy I recognise from 2012 or 2013. Very much back about 4 or 5 years to passive Andy.

Kei was clearly very nervous in the first half of set one, but from then on we thought he was splendid. Positive, great groundshots, trying to force the play and some terrific winners. He thoroughly deserved to win, and the scoreline in set 2 was VERY flattering for Andy.

Andy was flat as a pancake. Almost impossibly passive. Everyone around us (including small children) were asking, why is he always defending? Where were the serve and volleys, where was the BH DTL, where were the powerplays?

Hugely disappointing, more in terms of attitude and state of mind, than in terms of actual tennis shots. Bit of a downer really.

Oakland2002 · All-time great

Shame about yesterday, I think Andy is spent getting back to London. Valencia and Paris were real physical and emotional roller coasters. Not meaning to over play his recovery from injury but to be where he is now given where he was this time last year is fantastic.

The way Andy played when most successful was dependent on being incredibly fit, last years groundwork ie setting a base from which to build was disrupted by surgery and then rehabilitation. He bridges that gap from being a member of the top four to winning by just being that tiny bit fitter and at 27 should be able to get there again for a year or two.

A certain tempering of expectation will make that much more enjoyable, his career has far exceeded my expectations for him. His mind set is such that he may well go further again than by right his talent alone would take him, it is this that has made him Britain's best ever player. That said, this is just the start as hopefully that mindset means he still has a lot more to do for UK tennis on and off the court. It's easier to rise to achieve your own goals but to lift others a real challenge and only time will tell.....

indiana · Tennis legend

Yes, I always thought that the biggest issue for Andy this year would not be recovering from last year's back surgery in itself, but missing out on so much of his normal close season work on top of doing virtually nothing for a period.

And I do think it has been a real issue. Andy has said ( he does say some strange stuff ) things like he'd put in a few weeks hard work after Wimbledon, so was surprised and disappointed that he didn't last with Djokovic much better at the US Open.

al he would still have lost much of the essential pre season work, not made up for by a few weeks mid season extra work, and
b) it's not as if others aren't also working during the season.

That has combined with I think questionable focus and motivation at times to result in the year he has had. Mist of us though are understanding that a relatively down year was rather likely.

But the focus on many more matches lately combined with / largely because of trying to get to the WTF pleasingly indicates a real hunger again. And how he coped with 6 weeks in a row physically was encouraging.

I thought ( rightly or wrongly ) that having succeeded in that aim and having had a little time off he would be physically and mentally ready to go again at the WTF, certainly in his first match, so I was rather disappointed.

But on the whole it has been an encouraging end to the year. Some glimpses of his former self and finally a few top 10 wins do not mean he is back ( he has achieved relatively little in the tennis grand scheme this year ), but it is decent signs.

And I personally do think that he will be back in 2015 AS LONG AS he doesn't go the way of less agressive, more mixing it up tennis that he has indicated he would maybe like to do.

Yesterday was far too passive for whatever reasons ( though seemed more just flat than deliberate change of strategy ). Andy has never ( and in my view never will win ) the truly biggest prizes by not at least showing controlled agression.

His Wimbledon title win wasn't often pretty tennis, it was often consistent well controlled hitting tennis, it was successful tennis. And I found myself smiling when it was more Djokivic trying to mix it up, quite often with poor drop shot attempts.

Anyway, that would be my way to go :)