Week 35 - US Open

Spectator · All-time great

RE: Week 35 - US Open

indiana · Tennis legend

In whatever relative physical condition Andy thinks he is / wants others to think he is, I suspect his goose was well and truly cooked after these first two sets.

From all accounts very encouraging and promises well for the shorter form of the game in the remainder of 2014.

Then hopefully he can have a good, productive close season and be raring to go for 2015.

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
Cannot see any excuse for not putting a women's match - particularly with such marketable stars - somewhere in the Ashe programme.

There are no women's singles matches today. QF's were completed yesterday and the semi finals are tomorrow. The women's doubles semi finals are being played but the line ups are hardly stellar so I reckon you average Ashe ticket holder would probably rather watch the exhibition.

TMH · Futures qualifying

The first two sets were gruelling. Second half of the first set (tie-break aside) and most of the second set (having gone an early break down) he was playing some of the best tennis I've seen all year, and hitting his forehand unbelievably well (he was wiping Novak off the court with it at times, hitting winners from places you only ever see Del Potro making against Novak). Unfortunately he clearly tired by the third set and he was barely able to walk by the fourth (Novak was definitely tiring too, which helped Andy keep it competitive, but it always had that inevitable feel to it - Andy won about two points all set on Novak's serve).

All in all a pretty encouraging match. It's clear that the fitness is still the issue here (at least against the likes of Novak) but he's definitely getting there. The Asian swing and Paris will be a big marker now as to how close he is (to where he was pre-surgery). And with the impressive Tsonga win at least he now has that top 10 monkey off his back. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he makes the WTF however - really needs to make a final (or win) one of the remaining two Masters (winning a 500 would help too...).

-- Edited by TMH on Thursday 4th of September 2014 01:34:37 PM

Spectator · All-time great

RJA wrote:
Spectator wrote:
Cannot see any excuse for not putting a women's match - particularly with such marketable stars - somewhere in the Ashe programme.
There are no women's singles matches today. QF's were completed yesterday and the semi finals are tomorrow. The women's doubles semi finals are being played but the line ups are hardly stellar so I reckon you average Ashe ticket holder would probably rather watch the exhibition.

We'll have to disagree on the non-stellar line-up. I think that Martina Hingis alone, even without Sania Mirza (who is a huge star in India) would be something of a draw - and that's before you get to the people who would recognise the chance to see those two, Cara Black and Flavia Pennetta as quite an opportunity. Yes, for the "I watch tennis once a year" punters, it may be that the stars of America's glory days in men's tennis are preferable ... but I don't think the organisers would lose money switching things around. Indeed, they'd sell tickets for Monfils/Federer no matter what was on the programme, so why not have a wee bit of principle and not relegate all the women's tennis to the lesser courts.

Promise that I won't bang on about this any further - and I'm not normally one to protest such things. But I do think that this makes a very unhelpful statement and is unnecessary.

Getting back to the real topic of the thread, good to read lots of positive comments about Mr Murray's match! I wish he were playing more between now and the end of the year - the opportunity to pick up points is so great. But presumably his millions enable him to hire better advisors than an armchair tennis spectator

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 4th of September 2014 02:31:33 PM

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
RJA wrote:
Spectator wrote:
Cannot see any excuse for not putting a women's match - particularly with such marketable stars - somewhere in the Ashe programme.
There are no women's singles matches today. QF's were completed yesterday and the semi finals are tomorrow. The women's doubles semi finals are being played but the line ups are hardly stellar so I reckon you average Ashe ticket holder would probably rather watch the exhibition.
We'll have to disagree on the non-stellar line-up. I think that Martina Hingis alone, even without Sania Mirza (who is a huge star in India) would be something of a draw - and that's before you get to the people who would recognise the chance to see those two, Cara Black and Flavia Pennetta as quite an opportunity. Yes, for the "I watch tennis once a year" punters, it may be that the stars of America's glory days in men's tennis are preferable ... but I don't think the organisers would lose money switching things around. Indeed, they'd sell tickets for Monfils/Federer no matter what was on the programme, so why not have a wee bit of principle and not relegate all the women's tennis to the lesser courts.

A few counter points.

1. If they schedule a doubles SF it could easily last well over 2 hours resulting in the "main event" not starting until 9:30 or later. The doubles Exhibition will probably be a single set so assuring a start time of around 8:00 for Fed v Monfils

2. It isn't just about Ashe. They want some decent matches for Armstrong as well.

3. Throughout the tournament there are more Women's matches on Ashe than Men's matches. For the first 8 days of the tournament there are 3 Women's matches compared to 2 Men's matches. On Days 9 and 10 there was 2 each plus a doubles (men's on 9, mixed on 10). So over the course of the tournament, and including all SFs and doubles finals, the breakdown of matches on Ashe will have been 31 Women's singles, 25* Men's singles, 3 Men's Doubles, 2 Mixed Doubles, 1 Women's Doubles and 1 Men's Exhibition with the possibility of other exhibitions over the final weekend. I therefore don't think that anyone can reasonably argue that the women have been treated unfairly or disrespectfully.

*Mens was actually 24 as Dimitrov v Goffin was moved due to bad weather.

-- Edited by RJA on Thursday 4th of September 2014 02:54:51 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Interesting breakdown, RJA.

I suggested, without such detail, before that the US Open generally gives the women a good deal, and a heck of a lot better than Wimbledon.

Wimbledon - invariably two men's singles and one women's singles on both showcourts. The top women taking turns to appear on Court Two, while the top men ( certainly four of them ) are never seen there.

Personally, I'd prefer a women's doubles SF to a men's exhibition ( but then in any sport I prefer matches that really matter rather than "friendlies" and just being there ) and would happily wait for Federer vs Monfils. But I have real doubts as to whether that is typical of your average US Open ( or Wimbledon ) showcourt fan. I suspect the reverse.

So should the schedulers give what they think most would prefer or give them women's doubles under some "principle" re what is better for the women and / or the crowd ? ( Broccoli is good for you whether you think so or not, so you are getting it ! ) Especially given the women ( granted much more particularly the singles players ) get a pretty good deal at the US Open ?

There's certainly for me no clear right or wrong here or any disgrace.

philwrig · Hall of fame

Great effort by Andy as Novak was imperious for the most part apart from a few minor blips, he now can't lose the title unless something very unusual happens. I personally believe Andy had to play above his normal recent level to match Novak resulting in a physical letdown by the 4th set, so still lots of work to be done, but a step in the right direction.

EddietheEagle · County player

Andy certainly gave Djokovic a match and had him well rattled, at times. I felt the difference, once again, was the serve - Djokovic less spectacular in speed but significantly more accurate with his delivery.

indiana · Tennis legend

Andy saying that he thought Novak was physically better than him in the end, and that he was a little disappointed, "because I did train very hard".

He had previously said at the start of the US Open that he felt very good, having trained very hard since Wimbledon and I got the impression that he had particularly picked up his training since finally being pain free and having much more confidence in his back.

Surely the sort of fitness these very top guys need to compete in Slam matches like this one is built up over a long sustained period of training and matches, so to me he seems to be expecting too much.

Andy does have me scratching my head at times with some of what he says, such as that he wouldn't be too bothered about missing the WTF at the o2, since rest might be more of a priority.

Maybe that was to kind of take the pressure off, for I would have more thought that still needs more work and matches to build on what should be great encouragement from the US Open.

Have faith, Andy, and continue to put in the work, particularly in the close season.

EddietheEagle · County player

How much fitter can a man get? The first two sets were punishing for both but Djokovic seemed to have more stamina to pull away after that with Murray making more unforced errors. As he said, through tiredness. In a way strange, because I would have said Murray had better stamina than Djokovic who at one time was known almost for caving in. Must be the gluten-free.

indiana · Tennis legend

Quite a bit fitter if you have a longer sustained period of work.

Of course, it is all relative, and Andy is extremely fit now, but I would think, understandably, not as fit as he has been at his peak.

This is in absolutely no way a criticism. As I said "understandably" and he may have been expecting too much.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

EddietheEagle wrote:
How much fitter can a man get? The first two sets were punishing for both but Djokovic seemed to have more stamina to pull away after that with Murray making more unforced errors. As he said, through tiredness. In a way strange, because I would have said Murray had better stamina than Djokovic who at one time was known almost for caving in. Must be the gluten-free.

Or the Egg. Which is legal, but only because they can't find a reason to ban it!

RJA · Hall of fame

indiana wrote:
Surely the sort of fitness these very top guys need to compete in Slam matches like this one is built up over a long sustained period of training and matches, so to me he seems to be expecting too much.

Completely agree. Someone like Andy just can't make up for 6 to 12 months of not putting in the hard yards in just a few weeks. People who are great natural athletes might be able to get away with but Andy doesn't fall into that category and has to work bloody hard to get his fitness to the level that he needs.

We have seen it before when he had one of down spells after losing in the Aussie Open final and by his own admission didn't put everything in for the next few months. Even when he got his head straight again it took him till the start of the following year to get his fitness back to previous levels.

EddietheEagle · County player

Djokovic look as though he were puffing a bit, in the second set I think, but he was running like a spring chicken after that.

I was under the impression finals days had reverted to the old system with the men playing on Sunday but got that completely wrong. Is this a pending change for next year or when they finally get the roof on?