Week 33 - ATP Masters 1000 - Cincinnati, OH, USA - Hard

RJA · Hall of fame

RE: Week 33 - ATP Masters 1000 - Cincinnati, OH, USA - Hard

Peter too · Tennis legend

From 4-1 up in the 2nd Andy lost four games in a row and then got broken again at 6-5 to lose the match.

RJA · Hall of fame

Truly awful performance from Andy, losing the second set from *4-1 up. He claims that he is physically back to 100% but mentally his game is in ruins. He just can find any consistency and even when he gets into good positions in big matches he throws it away. I really don't see where his next victory against a top player is coming from.

kundalini · Specialist Reporter + Intermediate Club Player

I tend to agree with RJA's assessment. Federer's performance was patchy and at times, distinctly unimpressive. Andy looked like a very modest player strategically, tactically, technically and mentally.

-- Edited by kundalini on Saturday 16th of August 2014 02:41:16 AM

Ratty · County player

It would be interesting to see some stats on players who have managed to regain their previous level after a chronic physical problem.

Anyone can reel off lots of names (Del Potro, Fish, Ancic, Joachim Johansson, Hewitt, etc) of players who haven't ever come back fully, and sort of overlook those who have come back. But even so, I suspect that the number of players who do fully recover is low.

Nadal is the obvious exception, but he carefully manages his knee problems by only playing a few clay court tournaments and the majors.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

It's getting very worrying now. I'm beginning to wonder if he has enough motivation - not that I'm blaming him, if he hasn't. It isn't something that you can force.

indiana · Tennis legend

I really see Andy's current position as being very much more mentally related rather than physical, with just limited linkage between the two. He looked in pleasing shape physically as early as the Australian Open and I would agree with Andy that he is now physically back.

For me, it is not a question of coming back from.a chronic physical problem, it is refinding the previous desire and motivation.

As discussed elsewhere, there really may be a window of two or three years with Djokovic / Nadal/ Federer not being quite the force of before ( though pretty debatable, certainly for the first two ) and the new breed still establishing themselves. But currently, Andy looks far from ready to go through any window that opens.

Many were prepared, to different degrees, for 2014 being an Andy down year. 2015 increasingly looks very important as a pointer to how the rest of his career will go.

korriban · Challenger level

Agree 100 percent Indy. None of the top players seem to be playing even close to their potential at the moment, yet Andy is completely incapable of beating any of them. I don't believe he's a step short, or physically behind where he was...........mental and tactical weaknesses appears to be the issue, plus the resulting lack of confidence. Winning Wimbledon was the best thing and worst thing to happen for Andy.

If only Ivan Lendl could be persuaded......

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

I also agree with Indy.

Andy's back surgery was pretty minor and his problems really nothing compared to the back problems of someone like Tsonga, for instance, who certainly came back better and stronger afterwards.

There are many others who have done the same.

The difference is, though, that they were, in general, either younger or lower ranked (or both). i.e. still hungry and with a point to prove.

It is very difficult to keep that 100% motivation and effort that is needed - and confidence becomes key too which is a reflection of the former motivation and effort i.e. they give you the wins that then breed the confidence to produce more wins.

At the start of 2014, most people predicted Andy would be WR 3 at the end of 2014 but it's pretty fragile at the top - and I've never been a fan of Amelie as a coach.

Helen40 · Grand Slam Champion

Coup Droit wrote:
At the start of 2014, most people predicted Andy would be WR 3 at the end of 2014 but it's pretty fragile at the top - and I've never been a fan of Amelie as a coach.

I tend to agree, and have shot down in flames on the forum for saying so, but I do think that since she's there Andy should give her a fair go.We didn't see any improvement for a while when Mr Lendl came aboard.

However the whole mental thing with Amalie's mental frailty makes little sense to me of her appointment. The people that he's had in the past to be buddy buddy coaches haven't gotten him to GS wins. I hope it works out and he gives her a fair go, but ultimately if it still isn't producing the Ws, that they will both have the sense to split and Andy will get someone a little stronger mentally on board.

The Optimist · ATP qualifying

I really can't see how Andy isn't motivated - he wouldn't have worked as hard as he clearly has off the court to get himself in such good physical shape. Lacking confidence I can see and understand. In my view he is almost too motivated, wants to get back to winning so much that he's struggling to stay in the moment when on court. Juniors are often told that the last place they will see the results of hard work and training is on the match court and it really is true. Often it takes longer than it need do for the ground work to show in good match results as the kids start to worry about wins and losses and get tight and don't perform as well as they might. Andy is obviously no junior but I feel that having had a lengthy (for an athlete) enforced break and not having had that winning feeling for a long while that he is in the same position mentally - really prepared for winning but too desperate for the win to take it. Once he's found that balance between feeling relaxed but staying focused on the moment for several matches in succession, I'm sure the results will come.

As regards Amelie as coach, I don't think judgements can be made for a few months yet. It may be that, having been fragile on court at times herself, she now can look back and see clearly how she could have coped better and thus is a good fit with Mr M. Time will tell.

indiana · Tennis legend

Interesting.

I still see Andy's issues as much more mental and focus and really finding quite the ultimate drive and desire he wants. Of course, he wants to win, but things are not at as they were, and much may actually be in his subconscious.

He has won Wimbledon, had his back surgery and lost Ivan Lendl as coach. It's a lot to get through, and makes some of this year very understandable.

Hopefully he can have a decent end to the season. There then follows a very important close season, where he can hopefully have a good full Florida block ( not sure about this money making / exhibition stuff for the top players ) and really sit down and nail down what are his ambitions going foward, how is he going to go about attempting to achieve them and then go for it with a single minded focus. This just seems in many ways a drift year, again to some extent understandably, with the back surgery and time lost reducing expectation. But I see little indication that the back is an issue moving forward.

philwrig · Hall of fame

I think it originally was a motivation issue but that now has moved out of the way somewhat and it is now more a confidence issue. He is able to play for periods in his old style but then that is followed by some inexplicable way below par spells e.g 2nd set here and Wimby versus Dimitrov.