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Post Info TOPIC: Andy mutually ends partnership with Ivan


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RE: Andy mutually ends partnership with Ivan


Hmm, OK, before the language experts throw rocks at me...

"Harbouring of doom" in.my previous post was some figment of my imagination. I really meant "harbinging of doom" and looking online there does even then seem some dispute as to whether "harbinge" is a verb.

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Like others here, I didn't see this coming, but again as others have said, it does seem to make sense. Lendl was brought in to specifically to add the Slam winning mentality that was prhaps missing previously. And he did that with aplomb.

Even allowing for the back surgery, I have had the feeling that since winning Wimbledon last year, Andy has been looking for a new challenge - if that is the right word. Clearly, his goal since he was a teenager was to win Wimbledon. When someone has been so focussed on a particular goal for so long, and then achieves that goal, it can leave an empty "what now" feeling.

I don't think Andy has yet been able to reset his goals sufficiently in order to refocus. Perhaps bringing in a new coach (assuming he kind find the right one) will help him to set out the next phase of his career and how to get there. It may take some time to do both, so we may be in for a period of rebuilding mentally and perhaps technically in certain areas as well.

This may not be a stellar year, but I am sure that the wins will return in the end.

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indiana wrote:

Hmm, OK, before the language experts throw rocks at me...

"Harbouring of doom" in.my previous post was some figment of my imagination. I really meant "harbinging of doom" and looking online there does even then seem some dispute as to whether "harbinge" is a verb.


 The phrase I know is harbinger of doom (ie bringer).



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Bob in Spain wrote:

Even allowing for the back surgery, I have had the feeling that since winning Wimbledon last year, Andy has been looking for a new challenge - if that is the right word. Clearly, his goal since he was a teenager was to win Wimbledon. When someone has been so focussed on a particular goal for so long, and then achieves that goal, it can leave an empty "what now" feeling.


With the greatest of respect, isn't this speculation spiralling off into the stratosphere? Surely by far the most likely explanation of Andy's loss of form has been his recent back surgery. it's a regrettable fact of life that injury has blighted an awful lot of sporting careers; and back, shoulder and hip problems are (unsurprisingly) particularly prevalent in tennis players: Agassi, Rafter, Kuerten, Kournikova, Safina, Hewitt, Joachim Johansson, Roddick, to name just a few.

And incidentally, I've never really quite understood what a coach actually does. I suspect it's just someone who knows a bit about tennis, to keep you company on what is presumably a pretty lonely life.



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"Where Ratty leads - the rest soon follow" (Professor Henry Brubaker - The Institute of Studies)



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Yes, Ratty, we know that you hate lots of speculation ( tough cookie on a discussion forum ! ) and I recall that when Lendl was appointed you were vindeed very cynical then about the role of a coach ( well, on that one I and many many others actually think it proved to be a great appointment with clear changes in Andy'z positivity, both directly in tennis terms and in such as body language ). To me, just a massive underappreciation of what Lendl brough to Andy.

But hey, who kniws whether you are being contrary here just because you are feeling like another phase of being contrary or you really belive all that ( fair enough if you do, just in my opinion you are wrong ).

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RJA


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In many ways Lendl has never been a coach to Andy but more of a mentor and advisor. It wouldn't surprise me if he never "coaches" anyone ever again.



-- Edited by RJA on Thursday 20th of March 2014 12:30:46 AM

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He's unlikely to find another player with the parallel experiences that he and Mr Murray shared ... experiences which must have been a large part of the reason why taking on Mr Murray was so compelling. But actually, I can think of one other player that I could imagine him mentoring: highly ranked but never quite made the highest echelons, has played a GS final but not won one, comes from same country (I think - though don't know whether Lendl was Czech Republic or Slovakia) ...

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Thing is "highly ranked but never quite made the highest echelons" doesn't anymore desribe Andy Muraay, Olympic champion and two time Slam champion. It seems it is more time commitment rsther than wise counselling that Andy most seeks now. That may be right or wrong, but I certainly think it is understandable.

I see that Ivan was born in the Czech Repubic. I don't know what Tomas's current coaching set up is.

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I wasn't suggesting that Berdych was parallel to Murray - that was the point of the first sentence. And I can see the reasons - noted by you, Indy,and various people - why Mr Murray needs something different, and Mr Lendl might wish changes as well. But I still think that a Berdych/Lendl combination would be quite interesting at some point ... and not beyond imagination.

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Sorry, Spectator, I sleepily rather misread and hence misinterpreted the start of your post as somehow Andy wasn't likely again to find what he shared with Ivan. Duh.

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No problem - and you answered my question about Ostrava, which was a bonus!

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Definitely Ivan's decision, not Andy's.

 

A man of few words when he is not in the mood to talk, Lendl was quizzed on the split yesterday and made a one sentence addition to what he said in the initial statement issued by Murrays marketing company 77. I just couldnt commit enough time to do the job properly, he said.

Telephone discussions between the pair on scheduling matters have been ongoing for the last month but the time Murray wanted and the time Lendl was prepared to give, were hugely different. Lendl had always made it clear his full-time playing career, that ended 20 years ago, had convinced him he was tired of worldwide travel.

http://www.10sballs.com/2014/03/20/the-andy-murray-ivan-lendl-spilt-update/



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Interesting article, Madeline. Thank you.

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Stircrazy wrote:
Miriambee wrote:

The 64 K dollar question is who initiated the split? ivan fed up with Andy not going beyond QFs, or Andy feeling the coaching technique was inappropriate now he's won a couple of slams?


I'd've thought that the $64,000 question was rather who will step into Mr Lendl's shoes... 


OEM set the ball rolling in today's Times in his analysis of the reasons for the split in an article entitled "Match made in heaven always going to reach its break point" ( ) & the sub-heading "For all the progress achieved by Andy Murray under Ivan Lendl, including last year's holy grail, the end had air of inevitability".  He notes how Andy differs from Rafa, Fed & Djoko:

... an utterly gifted athlete who responds to gentle cajoling and to whom raising your voice would not get the job done.  He is troubled by his form, he still has bothersome doubts about his back and, recently, his coach was not there to help him out.

A couple of other telling paragraphs bear out some of the comments above:

Lendl was devoting more time to his tennis and golf academy and while the player was fretting at his form and focus at the BNP Paribas Open in Indian Wells, California, last week, Lendl was performing in Nashville, Oklahoma and Charlotte - revelling in his ability still to joust with John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors.

When he was on site, he would fit in practices with Murray around his tee-times.  Murray knew that Lendl and his golf would never be parted and the extraordinary success of their time together was enhanced because Lendl did not spend too much time in Murray's face.  Ironic, then, that part of the reason for their split is that Murray wanted to see more of him.

Lendl says that he could not commit enough time to do the job properly.  Decisions were being taken without his input.  He would not expect Murray to continue with an even less than part-time voice down  a telephone.  To succeed at the levels to which tennis has been raised needs a constant, a look in the eye, a commitment, a true bonding, and it was clear that the pair had been drifting rather than solidifying their relationship.

The article is accompanied by a "Coach timetable" (  )(Before Lendl/After Lendl?).  The four names in the latter category (with thumbnail sketches) are:  Dani Vallverdu (already Andy's assistant coach), Roger Rasheed (can't see him abandoning Dimi only four months after taking him on), Leon Smith & Bob Brett, who's apparently been asked by the LTA to run the rule over the High-Performance Centres.

There are also a companion article headed "Murray blossomed as one half of the odd couple" & a short Q&A about whether Andy actually needs a successor to Lendl.



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Today's comments and articles seem to put alot of the speculation in here yesterday to bed. I feel that it is starting to look like it is as simple as Ivan, having achieved with Andy what they set out to achieve, didn't want to continue in the same role.

I read an article 9 months or so ago, just before or after Wimbledon that in hindsight appears to speak volumes about this split. One of the few direct quotes from Ivan in that article really stood out. It was basically, in its simplest terms, something along the lines of 'im enjoying playing tennis again' in reference to hitting etc with Andy. When this news broke, having seen Ivan was playing the masters more and more, that quote was the first thing I thought of. Ive spent shedloads of time today trying to find the article. Haven't come across it yet though.



-- Edited by jenks on Friday 21st of March 2014 01:17:40 AM

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