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Post Info TOPIC: Weeks 26 & 27: Wimbledon (grass) - Andy Murray matches


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RE: Weeks 26 & 27: Wimbledon (grass) - Andy Murray matches


AliBlahBlah wrote:

Steven: regarding your Fred Perry question elsewhere, might it have to do with which tournaments were considered majors/Grand Slams at different points in history during his career? Further compounded by the same question applying to his amateur and then professional careers separately.


There may be scope for confusion somewhere but if so, I don't think it is linked to the amateur/pro split.

I first tried to work this out in January when the 106 figure was already being bandied about, which is why I checked again when it started being mentioned again this week.

Back then, I tried to reconcile the rounds Perry reached as shown on the Grand Slam Singles tab on his ITF record at http://www.itftennis.com/procircuit/players/player/profile.aspx?PlayerID=10004205 with Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Perry - the rounds matched between the two sources but Wikipedia gives 101 wins if only amateur grand slam singles matches are counted or 120 wins if pro slams are counted too.

I also checked any relevant draws that were available online to find out draw sizes at the time and likely/actual byes, and it seemed clear that the figure had to be closer to Wikipedia's 101 than the much bandied about 106, which I found out today was in the ITF media guide. I couldn't get an exact fix though, so I didn't tweet an alternative figure at the time. It looked like Wikipedia must be at least 1 out because they had his US Open record as 34-4 when he had won 3 of the 6 times he entered!

When I checked again today, I also found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Perry_Grand_Slam_record, which claims to be a full record of Perry's singles grand slam matches. That list looks like it is probably correct, in that it agrees with his slam rounds reached summary page on ITF, i.e. the first link in this post.

Checking that list, it is clear that the 4 USO losses on the main Wikipedia Fred Perry page should be 3 and I think they have probably counted the walkover (which they don't usually do) too. So I think Perry's real total was 99 rather than Wikipedia's 101 or the ITF media guide;s 106, which would make Andy the only British man ever to reach 100 singles main draw wins at slams and would have meant that he got there with his win in the US Open Final.

I don't know if some or all of the R1 byes were counted by mistake too (counting all of them would make the total too high, so that seems unlikely) but someone suggested today that maybe they counted his 7 main draw doubles wins at the AO by mistake - it seems conceivable that if they had done, it wouldn't have been spotted because the AO total would still have been less than the totals for each of the other 3 slams.

Of course, there may be a missing slam I don't know about that the ITF have details of but haven't added to his summary and which Wikipedia don't know about or I may have missed something obvious.

Even if I'm right, it's not in the media's interests or the ITF's interests to change it now, so it's all a bit pointless ... but to a mad statto like me, spotting the original discrepancy was like a red rag to a bull LOL



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GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



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The enjoyable (?) diversions of trying to get things correct.
Thanks very much for the detailed reply

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RJA


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Murray is dispatched out to court No1 for his second round match against Lu. Second match following Verdasco v Benneteau.

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Top bit of sarcasm from Muzz this evening - somebody tweets him:

"I recon serena williams could beat u on grass.. And I'm not even joking."

... and he replies:

"me too! Maybe we can set it up one day and see how close I get"

biggrin



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GB on a shirt, Davis Cup still gleaming, 79 years of hurt, never stopped us dreaming ... 29/11/2015 that dream came true!

GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



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What start is Serena getting ? LOL

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indiana wrote:

What start is Serena getting ? LOL


Normally the way they do it is to limit the bloke to single serve on each point and for his end to be the size of a doubles court.



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Spectator wrote:

On another note, something that I really don't understand. Mr Murray has always been sensible and gracious about the fact that Mr Federer is consistently on Centre Court and he is not ... pointing to Mr Federer's status as seven-time champion, etc. But surely consistently placing Mr Federer on Centre and not Mr Murray doesn't help the latter's sense of parity with Mr Federer, or his sense that people hold him in affection? I'm not saying that I think AELTC should do what other countries do, always putting their own first, but might they consider occasionally prioritising Mr Murray? All power to Mr Stakhovsky, but I don't think that's going to be the most exciting of matches .... (Tsonga/Gulbis, on the other hand, one can understand putting on Centre. Either fireworks or a damp squib, but definitely the chance of fireworks!)


I haven't noticed them favouring Fed over Andy in that way, unless having Fed play 1st on Centre and Andy 2nd or 3rd on Centre is counted as favouring Fed, but that's mainly done to get Andy on TV nearer prime time and probably helps with the crowd, in that the crowd tend to be more vocal (more resale queue people, less corporates)  later in the day

Since 2009 they have tried to stop any player having all seven of their matches on Centre Court, and they have put both Andy and Fed on Court 1 once each in the first four rounds. Partly this is to avoid the perceived advantage of a player playing on the same court in every round, partly to give the Court 1 debenture holders a bit of value - those debenture holders who go every day, at least.

Last year, Fed was on Court 1 in R1 and Andy on Court 1 in R4
In 2011, Fed was on Court 1 in R4 and Andy on Court 1 in R2
In 2010, Fed was on Court 1 in R2 and Andy on Court 1 in R1
In 2009, Fed and Andy were both on Centre in every round they played



-- Edited by steven on Wednesday 26th of June 2013 06:59:32 AM

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GB top 25s (ranks, whereabouts) & stats - http://www.britishtennis.net/stats.html



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indiana wrote:

What start is Serena getting ? LOL


 I remember her saying years ago when her and Venus were at the top of the women's game, far ahead of everyone else that she didn't see why they shouldn't be able to play with the men...



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Thank you, Steven and Indiana, for the correction! Sorry to have been sloppy in my comment - and glad the AELTC is being fair all around.



-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 26th of June 2013 08:22:09 AM

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Taking this more seriously than it was meant, I would think that Mr Murray would be one of the worst players for Ms Williams to play: his strength on return would neutralise her greatest weapon, and she probably wouldn't be used to having to return serves at his level. Would guess that she would be able to beat numerous male players, though ... and on equal terms, too!

On another note, something that I really don't understand. Mr Murray has always been sensible and gracious about the fact that Mr Federer is consistently on Centre Court and he is not ... pointing to Mr Federer's status as seven-time champion, etc. But surely consistently placing Mr Federer on Centre and not Mr Murray doesn't help the latter's sense of parity with Mr Federer, or his sense that people hold him in affection? I'm not saying that I think AELTC should do what other countries do, always putting their own first, but might they consider occasionally prioritising Mr Murray? All power to Mr Stakhovsky, but I don't think that's going to be the most exciting of matches .... (Tsonga/Gulbis, on the other hand, one can understand putting on Centre. Either fireworks or a damp squib, but definitely the chance of fireworks!)




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To be fair Andy doesn't do bad re Centre Court.

I think he only played one match on Court One last year and I am pretty sure one recent year he only played on Centre Court.

It was looking rather interesting for this year with Andy, Fed and Rafa meant to be playing on the same day. Rafa though.took pity on the schedulers !

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I think at this point one is inclined simply to hope that Mr Murray makes it through the tournament as far as he gets injury free.

Who would have thought that the part of the bracket that was seeded to go: Nadal v Paire, Isner v Wawrinka would in fact read Kubot v (likely) Paire, Mannarino v Brown?!



-- Edited by Spectator on Wednesday 26th of June 2013 02:06:44 PM

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Murray should be on very soon as Verdasco is about to serve for the previous match



-- Edited by RJA on Wednesday 26th of June 2013 02:45:09 PM

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To be honest I find it extremely annoying the the top players play on centre court as much as they do. Firstly I don't see why anybody would pay for centre court tickets for day 1 or day 2, the chances of seeing a decent match are almost non-existent. Secondly there is something wonderful about sending the defending champion, and other top players, to play a match or two out in the sticks, on a smallish court. The old court 2 is celebrated as the "graveyard of champions" but short of a major scheduling problem you will never see one of the real top players playing on court 2 now and IMO view that is both sad and wrong.

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Well (if I'm OK to express an opinion having blotted my copybook by being careless in first comments), I agree with you on that: suspect that Robredo/Mahut, Brown/Hewitt and a few other matches would be more exciting. Then again, a lot of people probably would pay money to see Federer play, whatever the match was like. And would add to your reasons the fact that in an era where the dominance of a few players is unusual, putting the same ones consistently on centre also tends to disadvantage the others against whom they might play in later rounds. (In which case, should probably modify my "fair all around" to "fairer than I thought." Hmmm. Can of worms. Yes, that's what this is. Can of worms. Why did I open it? )

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