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Post Info TOPIC: Weeks 35-36 - US Open main draw (men)


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RE: Weeks 35-36 - US Open main draw (men)


0-15

0-30

0-40

15-40

30-40

40-40

adv murray

4-2

15-0

15-15

30-15

40-15

5-2



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0-15

0-30

0-40

gsm Nadal



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Well, Nadal to win in 4 sets seemed to be the prediction of most people. At the end of the second set I thought it was going to be in straights. If only he had started by playing the way he played in the third set it might have been a different story, but from the start he seemed at odds with himself.

He obviously has the talent to win a slam but the head is the problem. Not sure if he can ever change that.

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RJA


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Sadly the result comes as no surprise. For all his hard work Andy remains in denial about the things stopping him taking the final step. Until that changes and until he responds to a defeat with something other than "I must work harder" I can't see it happening.

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got sloppy at least once in every set he lost. that is the difference. goodnight

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Deja vu.

- first serve percentage 10% below what was needed
- forehand far too error prone
- backhand very good at times yet too many careless errors
- struggled when he had break point opportunities, producing several poor errors
- very reluctant to serve and volley when it seemed the obvious play given the floating returns
- wastes so much energy criticising his own play
- ignored numerous chances to come to the net when he had Nadal floating balls back over the net

I thought he should have played aggressive tennis from start to finish and accepted that he was going to miss some of the time. Instead he seemed to try a bit of everything and never appeared clear in his mind what his strategy should be.

A reasonable performance but nowhere near good enough to beat Nadal.

It is frustrating that other players (Djokovic for instance) are prepared to identify weaknesses in their tennis (as opposed to fitness) and put in the hard work to improve a key element, whereas Andy's tennis has barely changed since the 5 set loss to Nadal in Aus years ago. The same problems, the same weapons that he can't execute often enough.



-- Edited by kundalini on Sunday 11th of September 2011 01:34:02 AM

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Disappointing tonight.  Good at times, particularly in the 3rd set and in flashes at other times but not for long enough and too many unforced errors ( and some really were unforced ).

Surprised at the lack of focus at timea and chuntering from quite an early stage ( particularly for a match against Nadal )

And ( allow me )  the serve, the serve !  Whatever we may say about his head, that serve just consistently is not good enough at the ultimate level.  If there is one thing that I personally would love to be better ( wouldn't you know ) is that serve. Quite a few other things feed off that.  That is not just his head, that is an ongoing technically deficient area in his game, which is so costly, and I wish somehow he could improve it.

It wasn't an awful performance but certainly on the night was not close enough to his best or near good enough to get the job done against the form Nadal is in.



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Andy won 33/44 (75%) of his net approaches. So why on earth was he so reluctant to come to the net ?

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kundalini wrote:

Andy won 33/44 (75%) of his net approaches. So why on earth was he so reluctant to come to the net ?


 

I must admit that during the match I didn't see a reluctance to come to the net as any really big issue, nor do I see such figures as particularly persusive, that when he did come to the net he didn't win the point on 25% of occasions. These points will include obvious put aways and clearly most of the best chances to come to the net.

Andy does have more net points than the others semi finalists and a not dissimilar percentage sucess rate.  Nadal  ( 19 / 25 = 76% ),  Djokovic  ( 11/ 15 = 73% ) and Federer ( 18 / 27  =  67 % ).

Yes, there were some seemingly missed opportunities to come to the net against Nadal and to an extent by the way Nadal can play, but it would almost undoubtably have been a reducing success rate if Andy upped to coming on less clear cut chances and Nadal became aware that he was coming to the net more, sneakily or otherwise.



-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 11th of September 2011 02:44:40 AM

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RJA


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As the saying goes you cam prove anything with statistic but it seemed blindingly obvious that he needed to serve volley more, at least until he stopped Nadal just floating the return in. There were also some big points where he really should have been in to kill the point but stayed back and allow Rafa to recover.

Commenting on Andy's big match defeats I feel like a broken record but here we go again.

1. I think there is near universal agreement that he can only win these very big matches against the top guys by playing aggressively. This doesn't mean recklessly but controlled aggression. Even Andy seems to understand that, at least partially. He is however fighting his instinct as a cautious player.

2. The only way he is ever going to be comfortable playing with this level of aggression is by playing that was more often. He simply has to start doing that. Not only will it get him to semis more comfortably but he will be much better prepared for them.

3. You cannot have so many mental lapses and win big matches. Andy has all the ability in the world and can go toe to toe with Rafa in a way that perhaps only Djokovic of the last 8 months is capable of. The big difference is that Andy always has lulls where as Rafa is relentless.

4. In so many ways Andy has an outstanding attitude. He works incredibly hard and has immense fighting qualities, anyone who doubts the latter should simply watch the *1-4 game in the fourth where he some hauled himself back from 0-40. These qualities, along with his obvious talent, make it incredibly frustrating that he simply refuses to accept what the problems with his game are.

5. He needs a change in his coaching set-up. Look at the people around him, his fitness team (been with him nearly 4 years and obviously get on great with him), his hitting partner (close personal friend), his mother and his girlfriend. Now there is nothing wrong with having any of those people around him but the problem is that everyone around him cares about him too much and I fear that none of them are willing to tell him the very painful home truths that he doesn't want to hear but so desperately needs to hear.

6. If I was his coach the first thing I would do is make a video medley from many of his big losses. It would heavily feature his missed forehand at Wimbledon and the subsequent collapse. It would also feature the 7th game last night where he threw his serve away by playing two soft point just because he was furious at losing the first point where he did nothing wrong and Rafa hit one of the finest lobs that you will ever see. I would make him watch these moments over and over again until the penny drops. I wouldn't let him on a practice court or in the gym until he fully understood and accepted why he lost those matches.


Now, I think I will save this post in order that I don't need to type it out again next time.



-- Edited by RJA on Sunday 11th of September 2011 02:08:02 PM

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That looks very balanced and virtually spot on to me.

Re. your last point, it was quite shocking last night hiw he was getting down on himself when he hadn't really done anything wrong ... and then of course did do things wrong as a result. So frustrating!

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steven wrote:

That looks very balanced and virtually spot on to me.

Re. your last point, it was quite shocking last night hiw he was getting down on himself when he hadn't really done anything wrong ... and then of course did do things wrong as a result. So frustrating!


 

Yes, I think RJA makes a lot of sense in his 6 points  ( and I won't argue re the serve / volleying and general net approaches smile )

And re specifically no 6, I've seen it so often him seemingly getting so mad at himself when all I see is good play by the opposition.  I guess theoretically any point you lose something didn't go right, but Andy is ridiculous sometimes when beaten by good shots. Some players, including Djokovic recently, you see complimenting opponents' shots and moving on.

Re the Nadal lob, the commentators did say he'd got too close to the net and kind of asked for it,  but that was maybe arguable and we are talking margins. It was more Nadal stretched as he was played a quite consumate lob.

But the most astounding / ridiculous one was that volley out at Wimbledon when he was playing ( most folk agree ) the right way, and played that point the right way, just overhit the final shot, i.e executed it wrong and lost, yes, an important point.  Such things happen though, and they just CANNOT be allowed to effect him as much as by all appearances that did.

Quite right, RJA, saving his post.  Wouldn't it be great if one by one the issues could be scored off his list.



-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 11th of September 2011 04:09:19 PM

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Aww, poor Roger, loved his press conference and apparent moral indignation that Novak had attempted amd made that forehand on matchpoints down, Roger serving at  5 - 3  up in the final set. 

Novak had thrown his cap in the crowd at 40 - 15 down and then, well over to Roger...smile

just the way he returned...guy who doesn't believe any more in winning....then to lose against someone like that....very disappointing...you feel he was mentally out of it already...just gets a lucky shot and off you go

and returning to the theme :

some players grow up and play like that....I remember in juniors players that would be 5 - 2 down and just slapping shots and they'ed go in for some reason...that's the way they grew up playing when they were down....I never played like that. I believe in hard work going to pay off kinda thing....because maybe early on I didn't work ay my hardest.....so it's very hard to understand how you can play a shot like that on match point...maybe he's been doing it for 20 years so for him it was very normal... better ask him 

Awwww   wink



-- Edited by indiana on Sunday 11th of September 2011 04:18:09 PM

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Yes, Federer has always been a very bad loser, the handshake at the end of the epic match yesterday was perfunctory, as it always is when he loses. Most other players are far more gracious, and there would have been hugging.


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Ratty wrote:

Yes, Federer has always been a very bad loser, the handshake at the end of the epic match yesterday was perfunctory, as it always is when he loses. Most other players are far more gracious, and there would have been hugging.


 

Yes, clearly not just Andy that Fed is ungracious to.



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