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Post Info TOPIC: ATP weeks 25-26 - Wimbledon


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ATP weeks 25-26 - Wimbledon


kundalini wrote:

Maclagan: "I think he needs to try and be more attacking more of the time because then it becomes a habit.

"If it is not your usual style you can't - whether it is Andy or anyone else - suddenly turn things on in the final or semi-finals of a Grand Slam.

"The way you play is almost a way of life, rather than tactics. Look at Rafa, people talk about his tactics but I'm not so sure he has any. He has just got his way of playing and thinks 'well, I'm the best in the world and if I play my way, I am going to win most of the time' - which he does.

"That's where it is difficult for Andy because he does have options - he can rally and he can serve-volley - but it takes time to put either properly into place.

"But in my opinion the first set was great and I think he needs to ingrain that kind of aggressive approach into his regular style."


 

From what you have been saying over time, kundalini, I would expect you were heartily agreeing with Maclagan.

Myself and others have at times indicated that Andy has different ways he can play different opponents, eg. I recall him winning a Canadian Masters title against Djokovic for instance mixing it up, not playing particularly agressively and winning.  Some were happy ( probably most ) with that, some were not.  I was happy, I think in his long term interests, I may have been wrong back then.

At other less important times, against many opponents he can play passively and he knows they will self destruct.  In Slams he has played like that more than once and they have not self destructed but kept a high level, to his cost, Andy seemingly having difficulty changing his approach.

Of course, he has massive feel for the ball and great defensive ability.  you don't lose that and it can still differentiate him and help him out at many times.  Against an opponent like Nadal, yes he can maybe produce the unexpected from time to time. But I am more and more convinced that week in week out he should be generally playing with controlled agression, imposing hinmself more on the opposition.  If it doesn't work at times, stick with it.  The more he plays like that, the longer at a higher intensity, the more hopefully he can sustain it when it really matters, and that for him is now Grand Slams, and not particularly even say Masters.

Andy to me sees himself as some really gifted individual who can outfox folk with mixing up play, playing passively at times, letting some self destruct, winning almost a chess match more than a tennis match. He gets satisfaction from that, but his ultimate satisfaction would surely be winning a Grand Slam.  He has to play more regularly the way that will ultimately help him do that, the way he played the opening set against Nadal.

Yesterday was amazing.  As has been said he had it right for over a set, and I didn't thereafter see this supposed opverpushing. What we saw was maybe a guy in two minds, uncertain as to how he should be playing and uncertainty can breed mistakes.  Do I push this shortish ball aggresively into the corner or do I just slice it back ?  Oh, I've just put it into the net.

The one shot that so many folk saw as a turning point was not overaggression, aggression was what set up the chance and it is then his feel could have ended it in so many ways, basically though he just hit one poor careless shot, it happens, we've all seen worse and at more important points.  Gee, it wasn't even at BP, it was to set up two BPs, which the odds would probably of been on Nadal saving.  

If Andy really thinks that one shot came from over aggression, if he thinks a few subsequent errors were overagression rather than maybe a mixed up mind,  then someone really has to get hold of him.  Worryingly though, from what Maclagan says it looks as if he has tried, Andy is just so stubborn.

When he actually said in a further interview I heard this morning that he should of reeled back and gone more "passive", it was as if he was challenging his critics out there, it was almost as if he was deliberately using the word that he knows so many folk have an issue was.

No mate, if you played aggresively more often, you might be more used to occasionally shots going awry, and would learn to stick witb it.  There should be no need to rein back, to reevaluate or whatever with a passive period.  If you've got your tactics right and they have been shown to be right against an opponent that wasn't changing his tactics, then you should be able to stick with and have confidence in your own tactics.

I've probably said enough that I'm a huge supporter of Andy, but if he proves over the coming months / year to be ultra stubborn and not prepared to help himself be the best he can be why should he expect all his supporters to keep up their same level of support ?

Sorry, I've waffled on as I can do so much, probably a bit repettiively, but I just got on a bit of a roll there    

Anyway, can Andy win a Grand Slam ?   Yes, he can.  See first set.   Will he ?  Who knows.  See much of the remainder of the match.



-- Edited by indiana on Saturday 2nd of July 2011 12:45:51 PM

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RJA wrote:

 I took the opposite view. Even through his low points I have retained a near certainty that Andy would win Slams but for the first time I think there is realistic prospect of it not happening.

For me yesterday was by far the most disappointing match of his career. In most of his big losses he never really got going or was blown away by a top player who played exceptional. Yesterday was completely different. His preperation was near perfect, Nadal was not at his best and for 15 and a half games he played fantastic. The tactics were right, the level of aggression was right and he was in complete control of himself mentally. Then what happens, one bad shot and he collapsed. That would be disappointng, albeit understandable, from a raw teenager but from someone with aspirations of winning majors it is unacceptable. To then come out and say he thinks he got his tactics wrong is simply pathetic.

I can only hope that somebody close to him has the balls to call him out on this BS because if he can't face up to why he lost yesterday he has no hope of winning a Slam.


I see what you are saying. But I suppose that my logic was this: looking at Nadal in the first set, he appeared really worried. He knew this wasn't normally Murray's game plan, so could probably sense (as per his interview) that it would unravel at some point (cf comments above). But if Murray had been able to sustain it, I think Murray would have won. And I suppose I think Murray could sustain it, if he were more used to it. So I think that he would be able to beat Nadal ... and to win a Slam.



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Spectator wrote:

I see what you are saying. But I suppose that my logic was this: looking at Nadal in the first set, he appeared really worried. He knew this wasn't normally Murray's game plan, so could probably sense (as per his interview) that it would unravel at some point (cf comments above). But if Murray had been able to sustain it, I think Murray would have won. And I suppose I think Murray could sustain it, if he were more used to it. So I think that he would be able to beat Nadal ... and to win a Slam.


I couldn't have put that better!



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Never thought that I'd see someone dominate Nadal on slow surfaces for such a long period!

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Do wonder whether it might be good for Mr Murray to get away from tennis for a short break, rather than vowing to work harder. It's not that he doesn't benefit from hard work -- he clearly does. But the tennis year is so long and so intense, and he already works so hard (or at least so it appears). And with a mother in tennis, a brother in tennis, and a girlfriend who comes from a tennis family, does he ever get away from the game the way Rafa does when he goes home and goes fishing? I should imagine it could all become a bit hamster-wheelish. Wimbledon won, now work hard, then go to the hard-court Masters, defend points, then go for US Open, then work hard, then go for the end of year event, then a training block, then the Australian Open, onto the clay-court swing, French Open ... Spend time with team (tennis), spend time with family (tennis) .... Even if you love it, surely it would weigh you down at some point ... and it would be hard to get psychological perspective. At some point, would it not be good to go do something completely different for a short while -- help build a school, or work with kids, or go fishing? Whatever. So long as it has nothing to do with sports. (Including video games).

End of the suggestion from the complete outside, who admittedly has no idea whether this is even remotely sensible or not.



-- Edited by Spectator on Tuesday 5th of July 2011 05:01:27 PM

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Well that sort of sounds quite sensible.

But there's one thing I don't quite understand with sportspeople. Those of us who have to work for The Man, we slave away 5 days out of 7, year-in year-out, and nobody ever thinks that we might get "burned-out" or "exhausted".

Yet ask a soccer player to play twice a week, or a tennis player two days in a row, and everyone's up in arms about poor diddums' mental and physical health.

Where's the sense in that, then?

cry 



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See David Lloyds comments today? Reckon Murray would have a better chance if he smartened up a bit and had a shave!! Also reckons Luxembourg will be a stern challenge as they have Muller!!

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RJA


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Ratty wrote:

Well that sort of sounds quite sensible.

But there's one thing I don't quite understand with sportspeople. Those of us who have to work for The Man, we slave away 5 days out of 7, year-in year-out, and nobody ever thinks that we might get "burned-out" or "exhausted".

Yet ask a soccer player to play twice a week, or a tennis player two days in a row, and everyone's up in arms about poor diddums' mental and physical health.

Where's the sense in that, then?


 I understand where you are coming from but I do think you are missing the point. I can go into a work feeling a little be a knackered, say 10% below my best, and still do a decent job. A professional Tennis player who is only feeling 90% is going to get stuffed by anyone who is close to being as good as him.



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RJA


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I don't know of any one saw Andy's press conference yesterday but he did say some slightly re-assuring things on the subject of his level of attacking play against Nadal. He said he was happy with the first set but when he started to miss in the second set he responded by pushing even harder rather that reining things in a bit. It did sound like he realises that he does need to be aggressive against Nadal but feels he didn't get the balance right last week. He is slapped David Lloyd down pretty hard.

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