Week 33 - Cincinnati Masters (ATP 1000 Series) - QF: Andy vs Mardy Fish

indiana · Tennis legend

RE: Week 33 - Cincinnati Masters (ATP 1000 Series) - QF: Andy vs Mardy Fish

RJA · Hall of fame

Madeline wrote:

RJA wrote:
philwrig wrote:
Even if he wins this match two more day matches in extreme heat against even tougher opponents is what's in store. Best to give this one up and be 100% for Flushing Meadows.
That is not attitude of champion.

Would Federer or Nadal ever think like that?
Federer fans alway claim he has tanked when he goes out in Cinci. Not a retirement, admittedly.

That's just fans making excuses.

murray_2k9 · Challenger qualifying

How can any1 think he wudnt be tired?

You dont beat Nalbandian, Nadal & Federer back to back without seriously applying yourself.

RJA · Hall of fame

murray_2k9 wrote:

How can any1 think he wudnt be tired?

You dont beat Nalbandian, Nadal & Federer back to back without seriously applying yourself.

I maintain that he isn't that tired. He is just really struggling with the heat.

johnnylad · Tennis legend

lost 3rd set breaker

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

We're never going to agree, RJA. He was suffering from heat exhaustion - I'm pretty sure that is what the doc said - how do you make that not tired?

Anyway, he is out, and the prize for losing is not having to play another match in that heat tomorrow. I'm not crying about it.

Get well rested for the USO, Andy.

-- Edited by Madeline on Friday 20th of August 2010 07:15:31 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Well as I I've indicated before, I consider Andy has brought into this tournament tiredness, a combination probably of physical and mental tiredness, which I don't find unexpected.

In the last couple of matches yes the heat has probably been the major factor and that has really exhaberated that degree of tiredness.

Anyway, all credit to Andy for keeping going today. As I indicated I did think it would have been wise to have retired earlier. To me that would have been no dishonour. I'd expect him to fight till he drops in a Grand slam, not necessarily here. I guess he felt he could make it through and he almost pulled it off.

At least Andy gets more rest now. Any general tiredness and heat exhaustion should not be any long term problem for the US open as long as he and his team handle things well. The last 2 weeks have given him great physical workouts, particularly in the conditions. Tto my mind, even more so than I have suggested previously, he doesn't want to be doing too much work next week. No real reason he shouldn't be sharp for the US open and he has proved when fresh that his game is in the best place it's been for some time.

Hard luck on losing out after a great fight today, Andy, but reasons to be optimistic for more important times.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 20th of August 2010 07:33:32 PM

philwrig · Hall of fame

Pushing your body to extremes when it has already hit the wall 50 times is a recipe for disaster. This is not a GS and that title is the only one missing from his CV. Its not quitting its just common sense. Anyway if Andy had challenged that call at 4-2 in the TB we probably would have had a different outcome, I'm not too sorry we don't.

RJA · Hall of fame

Madeline wrote:

We're never going to agree, RJA. He was suffering from heat exhaustion - I'm pretty sure that is what the doc said - how do you make that not tired?

Anyway, he is out, and the prize for losing is not having to play another match in that heat tomorrow. I'm not crying about it.

Get well rested for the USO, Andy.

-- Edited by Madeline on Friday 20th of August 2010 07:15:31 PM

My point is that the cause of his apparent tiredness was his suffering from heat exhaustion and not fatigue from playing five matches last week. Heat exhaustion is not caused simply by playing too much tennis.

Likewise I am far from concerned about him going out today but I would have been massively concerned if he tanked the match. It would have displayed a very poor attitude and would have been totally out of character. His fighting spirit is one his greatest assets and isn't something you can turn on and off to suit.

Don't think for one minute that I am having a go at you here. I fully understand that you want to wrap him up in cotton wool before the US open and seeing him suffer like he did today isn't nice at all. The thought "won't someone please put him out of his misery" is a natural one.

-- Edited by RJA on Friday 20th of August 2010 07:36:32 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

philwrig wrote:

Pushing your body to extremes when it has already hit the wall 50 times is a recipe for disaster. This is not a GS and that title is the only one missing from his CV. Its not quitting its just common sense. Anyway if Andy had challenged that call at 4-2 in the TB we probably would have had a different outcome, I'm not too sorry we don't.

That was my worry, Phil. Not any long term effects of heat exhaustion, but you can do yourself an injury when you're not moving particularly well or naturally.

Anyway, hopefully all well.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 20th of August 2010 08:51:30 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

RJA wrote:

My point is that the cause of his apparent tiredness was his suffering from heat exhaustion and not fatigue from playing five matches last week. Heat exhaustion is not caused simply by playing too much tennis.

Likewise I am far from concerned about him going out today but I would have been massively concerned if he tanked the match. It would have displayed a very poor attitude and would have been totally out of character. His fighting spirit is one his greatest assets and isn't something you can turn on and off to suit.

Don't think for one minute that I am having a go at you here. I fully understand that you want to wrap him up in cotton wool before the US open and seeing him suffer like he did today isn't nice at all. The thought "won't someone please put him out of his misery" is a natural one.

Sorry, RJA but many are of the opinion Andy has shown tiredness this week quite apart from the issue of heat. Not that being in the minority of course means that one has to be wrong smile

Of course heat exhaustion is not caused simply ( or otherwise ) by playing too much tennis !!

It is actually really a separate matter and it has ended up probably being the main issue, but like Mad I don't take back for a moment that without the heat Andy showed tiredness anyway this week, both physical and mental.

Again re continuing, I and others have given reasons why we considered that a danger, particularly so close to the much more important US Open.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 20th of August 2010 08:50:55 PM

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Isn't it nice that we can have civilised arguments on here, unlike some other forums?

RJA · Hall of fame

Madeline wrote:

Isn't it nice that we can have civilised arguments on here, unlike some other forums?

Yes it is.

RJA · Hall of fame

Some interesting comments from Murray after the match

"You always try and finish matches. I think I've pulled out of maybe one match, two matches out of over 300 or something on the tour," he added. "It does cross your mind a little bit when you're kind of struggling like that. But the doctor and the physio did a good job with the ice and cooling me down a little bit."

"Physically (this week) will have been very good for me before the US Open, I'm going to be fresh when I get there, but I've played three long matches, two to 7-6 in the third, and another three-setter in the first round was definitely beneficial. I just would have liked to have been given a better opportunity to recover."

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Fish demolished Roddick, winning 11 of the last 13 games. I don't like the man, but on the other hand I don't like it when somebody beats Andy and then capitulates meekly in the next round - so that's a consolation.