Messaging about Andy Murray

indiana · Tennis legend

Messaging about Andy Murray

Count Zero · Tennis legend

although this site is called the andy murray messageboard, it, in my opinion, effectively took over from a site called British tennis zone. i dont think sheddie designed it even for purely andy murray chat but he called it that as it was easier for people to find.
obviously andy has his own dedicated message board now which take some of the chat, but also its probbaly because murray is everywhere now, in the news, on sky sports etc that in a way there is less info to pass on. probably similar to how we didnt chat too much about tim and greg here etc, thats all on the bbc pages (and their own dedicated boards).

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

I suppose part of the reason why there is more discussion around the other British players is that there are more of them and thus it's easy to discuss them at times, and with the likes of Evans and Ward looking like they could be climbing the rankings, the optimism around them gives cause for discussion.

Also, with Murray playing fewer events than he used to, there are not as many tournaments where we can discuss his progress, and when he often has won an opening round match 6-2, 6-1, there's not a lot you can really discuss about a performance other than say he played well but was never going to lose.

And with the Murray matches overwhelmingly on the TV rather than having to follow the match on a live scoreboard or a stream somewhere, it lessens the amount of posts during his matches as people would much rather watch the match on a clear TV screen and then make comments at the end of the match rather than doing it as the match goes on which you can do if you are following a scoreboard.

Maybe there could be more discussion about Murray, but part of the problem is that there's not a lot to discuss at times when he is doing so well. Next week will give rise to some discussion about Murray as it will give us an indication of what his chances of winning Wimbledon are when we get to see him play on a grass court for the first time in a long time... specifically regarding whether or not his movement on the surface has got better than it was last year (not saying it's bad, but it's not of the standard of Federer and Nadal who will be able to exploit that if they play him)

indiana · Tennis legend

Don't get me wrong Count, I do realise that it always was about much more than purely Andy Murray, which was very good and I was very aware of the connection to britishtennis.net if not the history of how this forum developed and any reasons for particular names.

But my main interest has always been and remains Andy and I have had much past really interesting discsussions here about him. I was just interested and still am,surprised at the drop off, even in spite of some things you suggested. I would have thought there was still much potential in a forum such as this to talk about Andy's game, development, current and future matches. Indeed in the past things being said in other media outlets have sometimes provoked discussion here rather than reduced it.

OK, I hear folk probably saying why don't I introduce more specifically Andy Murray topics myself. I guess I am more a responder generally than thinking up good topics, but I am happy to try more in that regard.

But maybe there just woudn't be that much interest and c'est la vie, people's main focuses can change here for whatever reason.

I am not complaining, well that wouldn't be logical since folk discuss what they want to discuss. Just surprised, still surprised and personally disappointed.

indiana · Tennis legend

Sorry, FD, I did have to laugh at you saying not that much to discuss about Andy when he is doing well. Your particular forte has always seemed to me discussing things that you feel are wrong. Don't hate me for that lol

But gee I'm quite happy for you to bring up your thoughts on Andy's movement on grass, whatever.

You have never been anything but intertesting, to me provocative, and helped make this forum an interesting place.

steven · Tennis legend

I think you'll find that there's a fair bit of discussion about Andy in his match threads (or maybe you follow them and think there isn't!) but I think the main reason there's not more than there is would be that he's got his own site now and that means less people who want to concentrate mainly on Andy discussions end up here, so most of the regulars are just as interested in who might join him in the top 100 some day ... and in fact quite a few of us post on AM.com as well.

-- Edited by steven on Friday 5th of June 2009 04:44:38 PM

Count Zero · Tennis legend

i think the fact andy has his own board has a lot to do with it. in the early days andy didnt, so anyone looking to post on the subject would find their way here, now their 1st stop will be the offical AM board. they might find their way here later, but not that many do or if they do dont really stay. So whats gets left here is the scrapping of the internet barrel

people who have an interest in all the aspects.

edit, it isd an interesting point you raise tho, i never really considered it further b4, but then my main interest was never andy but alex.

-- Edited by Count Zero on Friday 5th of June 2009 04:51:47 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

Cheers, Steven, I think that it probably must have most to do with Andy's own dedicated site, which Count also alluded to.

I have never really checked it out so maybe I need to, and see if it is more the place for me.

And that is nothing against you guys at all, and it is so great that you have so much interest and concern about all the up and coming players.

But I have a real Andy Murray interest and looks as if i may not get enough of a a "fix" here to satisfy me

By the way, obviously I understand that with so much live TV coverage, there is very little need or wish for point to point coverage, gawd who wants to stop watching to type live info when it's not really needed. But in the French Open even the post match analyis seemed to me much curtailed from what I previously knew.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:

Sorry, FD, I did have to laugh at you saying not that much to discuss about Andy when he is doing well. Your particular forte has always seemed to me discussing things that you feel are wrong. Don't hate me for that lol

But gee I'm quite happy for you to bring up your thoughts on Andy's movement on grass, whatever.

You have never been anything but intertesting, to me provocative, and helped make this forum an interesting place.

I suppose it's easier to discuss and comment on things that Andy could improve on, or things that are going badly for him then things that he's doing well.

I try to be balanced in his assessment of Murray's play, but it's a lot easier to create a discussion based around what he can do to improve or what he's struggling with.

If everyone just said that Murray played well then it wouldn't be very exciting to read.

I do think that Murray is the 3rd best player in the world and am convinced that Murray will win a Grand Slam at some point, probably in the next couple of years at the latest, but there are still things he can work on to make sure that it happens sooner rather than later.

The movement on grass issue...if you watch the first two and half sets of the Gasquet match from Wimbledon and the Nadal match then it seemed that Murray wasn't moving as well as his opponent did on the surface, and I think Melzer in the DC tie managed to exploit it a little bit. But given his improvement on clay this year, I'm sure it's something that he has worked on and it will be better when he plays at Queens next week.

In terms of what actually is "wrong" with it... I'm not quite sure to be honest and I can't put my finger on what it is that is lacking. And I don't think it is just me who was this opinion... I know a couple of other people who have also mentioned this, and there are a few posters on MTF (but the respectable ones who actually know something about tennis) who have mentioned the movement issue.

There are plenty of things that are right with Murray's game but it seems that there is more chance of a decent discussion taking place if the things that aren't so good are discussed rather than have everyone discussing how great Murray's passing shots are, for instance.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

i'd definitely suggest you check out the AM board then, although some of the posters can get rather, erm, enthusiastic.

but you can belong to both boards you know, we wont cast you out branded a leper for signing up there

indiana · Tennis legend

Cheers FD, interesting as always.

I would like to consider myself "respectable" and know more than something about tennis. You can gain that by a lifetime of watching tennis without being any sort of player yourself. Respectable people can see two sides of a coin, be on different sides of a debate.

If and when I have said Murray has played well I have said it because I meant it, and I have certainly not always said it. I may be a big Murray supporter but I do not watch through rose tinted glasses.

You ( or was it Kundalini ? ) have occasionally suggested that some less critical views of others are expressed just because they support him so much. This may be occasionally true with some, but generally I have seen simple genuine disagreement about his performances and progress. To suggest otherwise, as you partly seem to do in your above post, is disrespectful and frankly annoying.

The guy continues to have work to do to get to the very very top, as he knows himself, particularly for instance clearly still on clay. But he has also steadily and consistently improved on aspects that have needed improved on and things that I have sometimes mentioned myself, such as 1st serve percentage and very notably break points ( conversion and retention ). His progress on clay is good, think how few matches on clay at ATP level he'd actually played pror to this year.

So, maybe indeed movement on grass is another area, I think you may well be right. 2nd service has long been and is still a concern to me, it does in my view most certainly need more pace and penetration.

Discussion is always so much better with respect of everyone's points of view ( unless they are clearly just a numpty lol ), and yes if everyone thought and said the same it would be boring

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 5th of June 2009 05:24:35 PM

The Hoose · Satellite level

I'm a huge Andy fan, but I'm able to talk about him with my friends and colleagues - so don't see the need to bring him up on here as much. Also, there's so much exposure of him, so many pundits having their say, that I'm not sure I can add much on a public forum. When it comes to the other Brits, however, this is my main outlet - I'd soon bore my girlfriend to tears (and occasionally have) if I kept talking about Boggo, Ken & the Phlegm et al in everyday life - and main source of information.

ForeverDelayed · Grand Slam Champion

indiana wrote:

Cheers FD, interesting as always.

I would like to consider myself "respectable" and know more than something about tennis. You can gain that by a lifetime of watching tennis without being any sort of player yourself. Respectable people can see two sides of a coin, be on different sides of a debate.

If and when I have said Murray has played well I have said it because I meant it, and I have certainly not always said it. I may be a big Murray supporter but I do not watch through rose tinted glasses.

You ( or was it Kundalini ? ) have occasionally suggested that some less critical views of others are expressed just because they support him so much. This may be occasionally true with some, but generally I have seen simple genuine disagreement about his performances and progress. To suggest otherwise, as you partly seem to do in your above post, is disrespectful and frankly annoying.

The guy continues to have work to do to get to the very very top, as he knows himself, particularly for instance clearly still on clay. But he has also steadily and consistently improved on aspects that have needed improved on and things that I have sometimes mentioned myself, such as 1st serve percentage and very notably break points ( conversion and retention ). His progress on clay is good, think how few matches on clay at ATP level he'd actually played pror to this year.

So, maybe indeed movement on grass is another area, I think you may well be right. 2nd service has long been and is still a concern to me, it does in my view most certainly need more pace and penetration.

Discussion is always so much better with respect of everyone's points of view ( unless they are clearly just a numpty lol ), and yes if everyone thought and said the same it would be boring

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 5th of June 2009 05:24:35 PM

Of course, my post wasn't to say that your opinion is not respectable because it clearly is and you have a pretty good knowledge of tennis - it was just to illustrate that some of the opinions I have are shared by others who do seem to know something about tennis.

I don't remember saying that some opinions are less critical because of they support them a lot.

I think the suggestion that I have something against Murray comes from the Djokovic match in Cincinatti where I seemed to be in disagreement with pretty much everyone else around that match, where I suggested that it was a poor match where neither player played that well, rather than the consensus view that Murray played a good match to frustrate Djokovic into making the errors.

Throughout the clay season though I have been very impressed by the improvements that Murray has been making and winning matches that I didn't expect him to do, especially the Davydenko match, and said at the start of Roland Garros I expected him to get the QF's, which 12 months ago I couldn't imagine myself saying.

Over the last 12 months, Murray's game has definately got a lot better and if he can improve the second serve and the first serve percentage (although that has improved a huge deal from a couple of years ago), I would definately consider him favourite for the US Open, and as it is, I'd probably have him as the favourite as I think he is the best hard court player in the world when he's playing at his best, especially on the faster courts of New York.

I know at times I can be critical of Murray's performances - maybe it's because when I watch the matches it is easier to notice things about his game that have not been good rather than what has been good, and it is something to make a note on for his next match as to whether he has managed to improve it/learnt from the mistakes etc. I try to give Murray praise when he has played well and say what has been good about his game...maybe not enough though in comparison with the negatives.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

I have always been mainly an ATP supporter, as that is the only tennis I can watch easily. When Andy came on the scene I saw at once what potential he had and tried to follow his progress - and in those early days, there only was here and Murraysworld, which I didn't like much and never joined.

My main reason for not posting as much on here is really purely physical. When all we had to follow was live scores I posted on those threads a lot. Now however, if I can watch top level tennis on tv, I do so - and the tv isn't near the computer. Also, my computer is about ready for the scrapheap and cannot cope with livestreams AND this board - although it can cope with some other boards at the same time, but Activeboard is particularly difficult.

Not being a tennis expert I don't have much to contribute to the threads afterwards either, I'm afraid. But I really like to read other people's discussions on him!

indiana · Tennis legend

Thanks FD for such a consensual post. I hope we haven't bored other folk, but sometimes better out than in smile

Yes, the Cincinnati match was probably one highlight where I wondered whether at times we were quite watching the same performance but there have some others and I began sometimes to have this underlying feeling at times of almost some sort of agenda. I am sure that for one thing is wrong, and just built up in moments of me being lost to understand, but just you genuinely have seeming often different views or maybe as you say can be easier to focus on areas that need improvement that maybe then leaves a negative overall impression.

But although at time I was surprised, I guess I built up more frustration because of what I thought of as a superior attitude to some other good posters who just didn't agree with you.

There seemed this total belief that you were right and others were simply in some way wrong, maybe that's a strength, but try hold that in a way that doesn't annoy others. When you say things, not for the first time, like your views being shared by respoectable folk, those who know about tennis, you may as you say just mean that your views are shared by others who do know their tennis. But if you think it through there can be people feeling that that gives the impression that those who do not share an opiunion of yours do not really know about tennis. Maybe find some other forms of wording, I am not generally considered a hyper sensitive precious soul. I am glad if you are maybe going to think a little more of what and how you say it.

Now having read through my last post I will admit maybe a bit selective quoting in you not exactly saying what I rather suggested, particularly about myself, I will maintain it still did have a tone and remarks although I maybe did take these out of exact context, that you, and the folk who know, are more right in your more critical views than myself and others who maybe are too much supporters. Apologies if I have that all wrong, but I can only say how I have felt at times on this forum, and do feel still remained in that post to an extent.

I am prepared to accept that I was maybe wrong in reading too much into some things, and what sometimes seemed to me condecending even in print is not how it was maybe meant but maybe just a strong belief in one's own views and I can be strong in my opinions.

However, I do know that my generally much more positive views about Andy's very steady almost continual improvement and of some of his matches were and are held by others, I don't say these folk know any more or less than others but they are good people generally acting without bias but just have a view that I share.

I aopogise also that past comments that I am maybe thinking are yours might have been Kundalini's since both of you at times considerably raised my eyebrows. I have for a long time had this constant image of Andy hammering Fed at Wimbledon and going to no 1 in the rankings and you two saying ah but Murray is just lucky that Fed was so off form today and he's lucky to get to no 1 in a period when all the other top players have gone so much off the boil for long periods smile

It is good to see you setting out so many positives about Andy's performanes and progress in your post, which I do share, try saying it more often, it doesn't hurt smile and presents a greater balance that you can then give thoughts on more problematical areas of his games. I admit I have been away from the forum for a while, but I didn't know you really thought some of that. Indeed I myself would not yet make him "definite favourite" for the US Open with Fed around and last year I felt Fed, for him, struggled a bit through last year ever from his early illness, I'd like to reserve judgemennt till closer to the event, but Andy and Fed as the two favourites a bit ahead of Rafa, Djokovic and Del Potro I'd say just now. I hope you are not setting up Andy just to shoot him down now biggrin

I essence I think we definitely do share many opinions about Andy and it has OK been often factual analyis that we have disagreed with but often tone and how that hads been interpreted and that can come over or be interpreted wrongly in forums.

Finally, I have looked over my own post here ( I am getting maybe too analytical ) and hope it doesn't come across as too preaching, but it's whgat I think and feel so anyway.

Good luck and never be afraid to say what you think but always respect others both directly and in tone.

-- Edited by indiana on Friday 5th of June 2009 07:42:00 PM