Masters Cup - Shanghai : Andy Murray (Red Group)

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

RE: Masters Cup - Shanghai : Andy Murray (Red Group)

indiana · Tennis legend

By the way, this is the ATP that proposed having a whole range of RR tournaments, and for the major season ending tournament their rules appear to be as clear ( or at least as transparent ) as mud !!

Mikeduke · County player

Madeline wrote:

Well yes, but suppose the alternate "inherits" the scores of an injured player who has won two matches? It would hardly be fair for them to qualify, would it? An alternate is surely only there so that there is a match to play instead of a large gap (and to ensure the players who were due to meet the injured player are not disadvantaged.)

You can't just have a walkover in Round Robin where positions can be determined by number of sets and /or games played.

Incidentally, the overwhelming opinion of the tennis press agrees with my post. If Fed beats Andy he is top of the Red Group with Andy second, if he loses he is out of the tournament altogether and Simon is second in the group.

-- Edited by Madeline at 16:59, 2008-11-13

Ok, yeah I didnt think that through very far, I agree that wouldnt be fair.

However I still dont think the alternate system is any fairer. For example if it had been Federer (assume top seed and on top form) playing Murray first and he had beaten Murray then Federer retired and the 27th seed came in. Murray would be massively disadvantaged, and would find it much harder to qualify.

I think that the player should be removed from the competition and the play is just between the three of them. (or count the score against retiree as 6-0 6-0 same difference). However i acknowledge that this isnt great for the fans.

Also I agree that if Fed loses is out and wins is in, too many rules for me!

Mikeduke · County player

indiana wrote:

By the way, this is the ATP that proposed having a whole range of RR tournaments, and for the major season ending tournament their rules appear to be as clear ( or at least as transparent ) as mud !!

Oh yeah I remember last time (Vegas?) when Del Porto retired halfway through a match and De Villiers said that Blake could go through, when the rules said he couldn't.

Thats the trouble with round robin though, whenever someone retires, there is always going to be someone who is disadvantaged.

Count Zero · Tennis legend

its cause RR are Dumb and it shows how Dumb the ATP are for trying to instigate them full time on the tour.

Drew · Nov 13, 2008

Andy's video interview on the Beeb web site....

"If I beat Federer then I will knock him out"

Not word for word..but close enough what he said. This was in response at being asked about his motivation for winning the match because he is already in the SFs.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Yes, he said he would like to knock Fed out because he didn't want to play him twice in a week! (which would happen if they both won their semis)

dougie · Club Coach

I was just wondering tht if Simon beats stepanek and Federer beats Murray. All 3 players will have won 2matches and lost 1.

Of those 3 players... all beat Stepanek/Roddick....

Murray beat Simon but lost to Fed....
Federer Beat Murray but lost to Simon...
and Simon beat Federer but lost to Murray

So surely all three would be tied with 2 wins and 1 loss so who of the 3 would go through Murray who beat Simon..but the Simon Beat Federer or Federer who beat Murray...as tht cant be decided it wouldthen it would to set difference?.. but say Murray loses in 2 easy sets to Fed is it still not possible for him to go out on sets/games diff?

Mikeduke · County player

No its not possible for him to go out, see the Murray vs Simon thread for the details. Bascially if Fed wins he will definately have better Set difference.

Then it comes down to Simon vs Murray, Murray will also have better set difference unless he loses 2-0. Then they will have the same, but Murray beat Simon already and so goes through.

:)