Boys & Girls: British Junior National Championships 18s - 2008.

Salmon · Tennis legend

RE: Boys & Girls: British Junior National Championships 18s - 2008.

XCW4EVA · County player

Tennis fan wrote:

Just had a long flight and so I may be in a bad mood, but is anyone else worried about the size of some of the top British junior players? Cox is the obvious example. He can't be more than 5'6"! Have the LTA learnt nothing from the relative failures of the past? I say relative because to get inside the top 500 is still a massive achievement (players like Hilton and Flanagan), but if the LTA are really interested in finding top 100 players, they need to be realistic about the physicality of the game.

good point, but with some obvious exceptions such as Rochus etc

Its difficult for the Lta on this aspect of raising juniors coz you can't really predict how tall someone will get. obviously if hes a big kid its more likely hell be a big adult, but i think the bigger a kid is the more likely he will play other sports where size plays a bigger role at the time, being small and playing tennis wont matter when ur playing 14 years olds, but it matters in a football sense.

Salmon · Tennis legend

I think people have a horrible misconception regarding heights of tennis players (thanks to Ratty for that great post a couple of years ago). What you see on the ATP site is absolute rubbish.

Just check out the pics here - http://www.masters-cup.com/3/portraits/archive.asp

And you'll get an idea about how much players lie about their height.

The only assumption we make is that no one lies about their height in a negative way (that is, a 6 foot 5 player claiming to be 6 foot 2).

Take the 2001 pic. The three guys on the left, Rafter, Haas and Kafelnikov, are of the same height roughly but just look at what the ATP site gives us -

Kafelnikov - 6' 3''
Haas - 6' 2''
Rafter - 6'1''

Even if we take Rafter to be 6'1'', Grosjean comes to be no better than 5'5'' or 5'6''.

But ATP site says: 5' 9''

And Hewitt will be something like 5'7'' or 5'8''. But ATP site says - 5' 11!

I'll post more on this later as I need to go out.

Ratty · County player

Tipsarevic is another blatant fibber about his height. He is probably 5'8", but his "official" height is 5'11".

It certainly does not help to be short, and the mean "official" height of successful male pro's is 6'1" (so probably really 5'11" - 6'0").

Height does not seem to offer nearly so much of an advantage on clay and slow surfaces, where the tall guys' service speed and angle advantage is nullified by the little guys' mobility advantage. The pre-Nadal Roland Garros champions included Costa, Ferrero, Gaudio & Agassi - all well under 6'0". There have been relatively few huge guys who can play well on clay.

So a bit early to write off Cox & Evans, methinks.

omg · Newbie

This is interesting... most of the players I met are far more shorter than what it's say in the paper??!!

omg · Newbie

Tennis fan wrote:

Just had a long flight and so I may be in a bad mood, but is anyone else worried about the size of some of the top British junior players? Cox is the obvious example. He can't be more than 5'6"! Have the LTA learnt nothing from the relative failures of the past? I say relative because to get inside the top 500 is still a massive achievement (players like Hilton and Flanagan), but if the LTA are really interested in finding top 100 players, they need to be realistic about the physicality of the game.

The LTA saw Naomi Broady lost to a Japanese who is only 5'1 in Wimbledon. To be fair to Naomi, 99% they are shorter than her.

women serves so bad no matter how tall they are biggrin

Salmon · Tennis legend

Welcome to the forum, Tennis fan and omg.

Take the 2005 pic -

Davydenko's official height is 5' 11'', so his real height is no more than that. Even with no hair, he is around two inches taller than Gaudio, and three inches taller than Coria as Coria has fluffed up hair.

ATP says...

Gaudio: 5' 10''
Coria: 5' 9''

If people can win Slams with heights of around 5' 7'', we shouldn't write off anyone just because they are not anywhere near hulks like Safin or Cilic. I bet that there have been plenty of top 100 players who are around 5' 7'' ish but you don't know about it unless you stand two inches away from them.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Actually by looking at the 2004 pic, we can see that Coria is no better than 5' 5'' or 5' 6'', if we can deduce that Hewitt is 5'7'' or 5'8'' from the 2001 pic.

Boy... no wonder they stopped posing while standing from 2006 onwards.

omg · Newbie

Tennis fan wrote:

Just had a long flight and so I may be in a bad mood, but is anyone else worried about the size of some of the top British junior players? Cox is the obvious example. He can't be more than 5'6"! Have the LTA learnt nothing from the relative failures of the past? I say relative because to get inside the top 500 is still a massive achievement (players like Hilton and Flanagan), but if the LTA are really interested in finding top 100 players, they need to be realistic about the physicality of the game.

Tennis fan don't get mad of your student lost to a shorter player.... they are everywhere biggrin

Salmon · Tennis legend

I don't understand much of gamestyles, so I'm really curious of one thing. What significant advantages will a tall guy have?

The serve is definitely there as is the weight of shot. But what else?

No idea about Evo, but Coxy's forehand surely packs quite a punch from what I've heard (and the little I've seen).

The serve point is definitely there for both, but it can be helped. Serving requires technique, too, contrary to what people often believe. Benjamin Becker is like 5' 9'' or 5' 10'', but serves over 140 on a regular basis. Yes, if you're Isner or Karlovic, you'll have a natural advantage, but it can be learned, too!

From what I heard, Becker wasn't that big a server (although it was definitely a major weapon) in his college days but was transformed after getting Tarik Benhabiles as a coach. Benhabiles is surely a serve king as his other students include Roddick and Marius Copil, a 17 year old who aced El Aynaoui 31 (!) times this June.

Ratty · County player

Mainly a geometric advantage, now that people don't come into the net much and their "wingspan" doesn't matter so much.

The taller you are, the higher off the ground you hit the ball. Bearing in mind that you have to hit it over a 3' high net, hitting from higher up gives you more to aim at, so a tall person can hit harder than a shorter person, but with the same margin of error.

Also, particularly on serve, the ball will bounce higher - it's tough for a single handed backhander to return Dr Ivo's serve when it's head high.

It's easier to explain with a diagram, but you can visualise ...

Salmon · Tennis legend

Yes, seems fair enough.

They can be made up for, I'm sure, as so many others have done it in the past.