British Women - Top 25 etc table

indiana · Tennis legend

British Women - Top 25 etc table

SMC1809 · All-time great

Indy, Steven would be proud of you. wink

steven · Tennis legend

LOL yes, a faultless performance from Indy there.

Funny how that question came up just a few hours after a similar question about Jamie B on the men's thread.

wolf · Tennis legend

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous Anne gets penalised for missing events because of a serious injury? One thing getting injured but then the WTA makes it harder for you to climb back up the rankings when you come back.

SMC1809 · All-time great

I guess that's why they have PRs.

-- Edited by SMC1809 on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 02:06:55 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

wolf wrote:

Does anyone else think it's ridiculous Anne gets penalised for missing events because of a serious injury? One thing getting injured but then the WTA makes it harder for you to climb back up the rankings when you come back.

As long as we have the mandatory system for top players counting scores from all Grand Slams and a number of other designated tournaments, actually no I don't think it's ridiculous. That's really because I don't think she is being particularly penalised much.

She is only carrying two zero pointers from events she has missed through injury. She is thus only 10 points ( 2 x 5 ) worse off than if she had lost in the first round of the last US and Australian Opens.

Would it be fair if an injured player ( with a ranking that made it a manadatory tournament for her ) was allowed not to count scores from these tournaments but instead add other scores that would otherwise be non counters, whereas the first round loser cannot do similarly.

Apart from anything, it would be open to abuse ( clearly not in Anne's case ) with mysterious injuries when a player perhaps didn't fancy a major tournament.

You could I guess cancel the zero pointer if a player was out for a number of months like Anne, but the comparison to the 1st round loser remains.

The whole question of having mandatory tournaments ( and a similar system operates with the ATP ) for the top players and the number of such tournaments is a more general debate.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 03:28:10 PM

murray_2k9 · Challenger qualifying

I totally agree. Though my first instinct was that yes, it was unfair, allowing a player to not have mandatory events counting totally undermines the point of making an event mandatory and as already said, she could have drawn Serena Williams in R1 of the Aussie anyways and since 64 top women walk away with just 5 points in the scoring list its hardly a massive deal.

It does show how important it is to fight for that R1 win of a big event.

Shhh · Challenger level

indiana wrote:

Shhh wrote:

Anne K is listed here and on the WTA site as having 435pts. Her best 16 scores add up to 457pts though? How is the 435 total arrived at??????

Unless coincidence, I'm pretty sure the issue here is that you are not allowing for the fact that she is carrying six mandatory scores from Grand Slams and Premier Mandatory events, i.e. two 0s ( from two Grand Slams where she couldn't play but had the ranking to do so ) and four 5s ( from 1st round losses in two Grand Slams and two Premier Mandatories ).

Thus from what would otherwise have been simply her best scores, the two 0s count instead of her two scores of 12 and 10.

This links to the statistics for each player as to what their counting ( and non counting ) scores are :

http://www.freewebs.com/britishtennis/stats/ptdf.htm?n=1

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 24th of August 2010 09:28:06 AM

Zero points for both US and Aussie Opens despite being obviously injured.....thats strict!

Cheers for the explanation indiana.

steven · Tennis legend

The new (20 Sep) WTA rankings have been added to the women's top 25 table and all the other stats pages. Elena hangs onto a top 50 place for a second week (down 1 at 50) but will probably need to reach the semis in Seoul to stay there given that her 110 Shrewsbury winner points are due to come off.

After the massive points haul the Brits got in Shrewsbury last year (their collective best week of 2009, I think), it seems a bit crazy how weak the home entry is there this year. Having said that, the two finalists (Elena & Katie) are playing Asian WTAs while Cav and Mel are managing to justify going to Australia instead so maybe it's not as strange as it looks!

There are two new singles career highs today - Heather at 211 and Naomi Broady at 261 - the latter also heads 8 new doubles CHs at 416.

steven · Tennis legend

The new (4 Oct) WTA rankings have been added to the women's top 25 table and all the other stats pages.

Laura Robson is one of two new singles CHs at 212 and Naomi Broady is one of two new doubles CHs at 339. Jennifer Allan joins the GB top 25 with a new singles CH of 943 and also has the other new doubles CH at 889.

steven · Tennis legend

The new (18 Oct) WTA rankings have been added to the women's top 25 table and all the other stats pages.

Hitting her third career high in as many weeks, Laura Robson has (as expected) broken into the top 200 at WR 189.

There are also singles career highs for Tara Moore at 388 and Jennifer Allan at 854. The latter has a new doubles career high too at 793, and there are also doubles CHs for Francesca Stephenson at 483 and Daneika Borthwick at 625.

steven · Tennis legend

The new (25 Oct) WTA rankings were added to the women's top 25 table and all the other stats pages yesterday.

There was just one new singles career high, Jennifer Allan (who has hit a new career high every Monday this October) edging up another place to 853, while there are new doubles career highs for Tara Moore at 382, Francesca Stephenson at 476, Daneika Borthwick at 623 and Jennifer Allan at 786.

The following 11 GB girls are now more than 10% closer to the world no. 1 spot than they were at the start of the year, taking those who started off unranked to have started the year with a ranking equal to the number of ranked players on 31 Dec +1:

+62.4% Watson, Heather (UP from 554 to 209)
+50.7% Robson, Laura (UP from 403 to 199)
+36.9% Moore, Tara (UP from 619 to 391)
+36.9% Whybourn, Lisa (UP from 522 to 330)
+34.9% Baltacha, Elena (UP from 84 to 55)
+30.9% Smith, Anna (UP from 434 to 300)
+27.8% Fitzpatrick, Anna (UP from 748 to 540)
+25.9% Allan, Jennifer (NEW from UNR to 853)
+19.2% Broady, Naomi (UP from 298 to 241)
+14.6% Stephenson, Francesca (NEW from UNR to 983)
+13.7% Brown, Lucy (NEW from UNR to 993)

However, 7 GB girls have dropped out of the rankings this year compared to only 6 who have joined (though Daneika Borthwick will join next Monday) and of the 27 who were ranked at the start of the year and are still ranked now, somewhat shockingly (for what doesn't feel like it has been a particularly bad year), twice as many (18) have fallen as have risen since the start of the year, though those who have risen have tended to rise significantly - 8 of them are in the above list and the 9th, Nik Slater, is up 8% too.

-- Edited by steven on Tuesday 26th of October 2010 05:23:45 AM

indiana · Tennis legend

Very interesting, Steven. In spite of so many girls outside the top 500 falling in the rankings to various extents, I think you are right in the impression you had without these UP & DOWN stats that it hasn't been a particularly bad year. I would actually say it has not been a bad year at all.

Let's look within the stats and focus on the people who were in the top 500 at the start of the year and at the end of the year.

For the men 6 have moved up and 7 down, for the women 7 have moved up and 9 down.

But the big thing for me is the % and ranking places rise for the women and indeed to an extent who it has been.been. The 7 women have moved up a total of 271.9% ( 1189 ranking places ), 6 of them over 30% including Elena's big move at GB No 1 and 4 of the other 5 within the top 500 rising over 30% being teenagers. The 6 men have moved up a total of 140.5% ( 756 ranking places ) only 2 ( Alex Ward & Bloomfield ) by more than 30%. Alex is very encouraging, Richard's is of course much down to one tournament. Dan Cox's, Josh Milton's and James Ward's moves of between 18.6% and 27.8 have been really encouraging though, particularly as mostly more recent moves.

Looking at these of the initial top 500 of each sex that have fallen down, you have listed the 7 men in the top 25 men thread, the 9 women are :

-   3.0% Webley-Smith, Emily ( DOWN from 432 to 445 )
-   4.4% Cavaday, Naomi ( DOWN from 204 to 213 )
- 17.2% Carreras, Amanda ( DOWN from 430 to 504 )
- 22.5% Rae, Jocelyn ( DOWN from 495 to 606 )
- 25.3% Keothavong, Anne ( DOWN from 100 to 125 )
- 33.5% South, Melanie ( DOWN from 189 to 252 )
- 79.7% Gent, Georgina ( DOWN from 262 to 470 )
- 95.4% O'Brien, Katie  ( DOWN from 88 to 171 )
-120.5% Curtis, Jade ( DOWN from 332 to 731 )

The total % fall of the 7 men is 205.7% ( 564 ranking places ) and the total fall of the 9 women is 401.5% ( 967 places ). A big part though is due to Georgina and her injury problems and Jade ( though Jade was on a pretty big fall before she even stopped playing professionally and went to college ).

3 men have dropped over 30% ( Goodall, Evans and Boggo ), 4 women ( Mel, Georgina, Katie and Jade )

In all circumstances, focussing on folk that were or are in the top 500, looking at who is involved, who has the particularly big moves and some extenating circumstances, I do as I said earlier think the perception that this has been not a bad year at all for the women is right, and indeed over the whole year I would say better than for the men, but probably arguable.

-- Edited by indiana on Tuesday 26th of October 2010 12:33:36 PM

steven · Tennis legend

The new (1 Nov) WTA rankings have been added to the women's top 25 table and all the other stats pages.

There are 3 new singles and 3 new doubles CHs, with Naomi Broady, up 10 to 231, heading for the former. Tara Moore (singles 368 & doubles 361) and Daneika Borthwick (new to the singles rankings at 1042 & doubles 622) both have new career highs in both lists.

The top 20 (+ Konta) in the GB race are now as follows (counting all points picked up in 2010, whether or not they are currently counters - and at this stage, some of them are already certain not to be counters at the year end either), with actual GB rankings in brackets:

1145 Elena Baltacha (1)
673 Anne Keothavong (2)
341 Katie O'Brien (3)
269 Heather Watson (5)
267 Laura Robson (4)
263 Naomi Cavaday (6)
223 Johanna Konta (*)
179 Naomi Broady (7)
176 Melanie South (8)
154 Anna Smith (9)
132 Lisa Whybourn (10)
113 Tara Moore (11)
68 Georgina Gent (13)
60 Emily Webley-Smith (12)
60 Anna Fitzpatrick (14)
52 Amanda Carreras (15)
29 Jocelyn Rae (16)
16 Nicola Slater (20)
15 Jennifer Allan (21)
14 Jade Windley (18)

Players in the current GB top 20 but not in the above list are:

10 Danielle Brown (17)
5 Jade Curtis (19)

steven · Tennis legend

This week's GB top 25 women's table is finally up ... never mind that it's almost time for next week's to go up too ... LOL