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Post Info TOPIC: Boys & Girls: 44th Astrid Bowl Charleroi, Belgian International Junior Championships - ITF Grade 1 - 2008.


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RE: Boys & Girls: 44th Astrid Bowl Charleroi, Belgian International Junior Championships - ITF Grade 1 - 2008.


Always the need to blame someone (usually the LTA) for a player failing to fulfil early potential.

When Federer finished the year No 1 junior (I think it was 1998) the top 10 also included Gonzalez, Coria and Nalbandian.

The guy who finished No 2 was a French lad called Julien Jeanpierre. He's still around, ranked 470 at the age of 28, and playing the Challenger circuit.

It happens. Finding someone to blame is what kids (and US lawyers) do.


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Jeanpierre must be good though - he beat James Ward 6-4 6-0 this year! laughing.gifwink.gif

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You can hardly go and blame the post office for not having enough players in the top 100, you know. With great power comes great responsibility....


Ratty, as I'm sure you know, it's much, much more important to look at men's results to determine a player's potential given how Juniors ranking can be inflated. Looking at Jeanpierre's results, he was around 17 when he first started beating top 1000 players. Not exactly star material - plus Jeanpierre was 18 in 1998 while Nalby was 16. Haha - Jeanpierre won just a single main draw match in 1998 where as when Nalby was 18, he qualified for a Masters.



More often than not, you'll find that if a player is good enough to beat ATP top 700 players regularly when they are 15 or 16, they'll get to the top 100 at some point of their lives.

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I have to say im founding this conersation bewildering. How many times have either Arka or 'JohnnyLad' seen Cox or Evo Play. Im assuming GoldenSlam as seen a lot more of him then both of you have? It seems to me that you basing your entire opinions on sets of results and a schedule. Whereas GoldenSlam seems like hes had contact with Cox, don't you think he knows a little bit more the both of you?

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I have seen Cox hit a forehand (about 0.8 seconds) and seen Evo for around 2 minutes.



I still think I'm right. We're talking of scheduling, not gamestyles and the tournaments they have played so far are on the ITF site to see.

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But we are taking into account attitudes towards matches. One of you principle arguments is that Dan is perhaps lacking motivation to play juniors. I don't think results on their own could give accurate measurement about wether someone is up for the match or not. Therefore I would say Golden Slams input here is invaluable in figuring out what exactly is wrong with Dan's game atm.

It's also fair to suggest that just because you dont neccessarily want to play somewhere doesn't mean you dont try you hardest to do well. Theres plenty of guys playing futures really worried about accomadation and their saefty in a foreign country, but still try their hardest to get result. If Dan is not trying his hardest in theses games because he wants to play mens or doesn't fancy the junior environment, and this is pure speculation on my part, then he really has no future in this sport.

Lets also not forget, Dan is his own man, the lta can't force him to play anywhere that he doesn't want to. If he really feels he is ready then I'm sure he will stand up and say so, I am sure the lta would back this. Dan could have had a lot of influence over these sechduling., whose to say he doesn't want to play juniors.

-- Edited by XCW4EVA at 17:15, 2008-05-26

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No, no, when you're 16 or 17, normally all your scheduling is done by others. And as someone else out here aptly said last year, when the guys writing the cheques tell you to do something - you do it.


I have NEVER said that Dan doesn't want to win any particular match. That person's a real fighter and would give his all in practice matches, too, I'm more than sure.








Seriously, though... I've spent half my life arguing about Coxy on this site.

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I know, Im not disagreeing per se, I just felt that people were disregarding what GoldenSlam was saying. When to be perfectly honest, hes far more likely to have an accurate opinion on the subject, we merely, are just speculating.

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I don't know. cry.gif

Gamestyles - coaches know best!

Results/schedules - anyone can.

-- Edited by Greenleaf at 17:22, 2008-05-26

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And it goes without saying that I hope that Goldenslam is right.

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Haven't disregarded a word of what the "Golden Coach" said.

Read it again.

Actually, feel like he has disregarded my opinion. Of course, he is closer to the player than us, but LOOK at the RESULTS. That is what we are basing our ramblings on.

We are suggesting Cox play seniors not juniors. The only way to settle this would be to try that. But he will be kept to juniors by the looks. (And he's not his own man, he's the LTA's man - that's the point.)



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Dan as do all players working within the LTA have a huge say in their own tournament planning. One of the pathways to the top, set out in the blue print, having been researched indepth was to have players competing at the junior grand slams in their final junior year at the latest.
Now Dan was not ranked high enough to get in to Roland Garros/Wimbledon a couple of months back so his plan was changed to enable him to pick up some wins & some points at junior level to gain DA in to those events, as well as pick up some much needed match confidence to carry over to futures events, now I hope you can see it is long term plan made up of short term goals such as these.

Dan is now entering the phase of his periodised plan where I suspect he is looking to peak for Roland Garros, Roehampton, Wimbledon - he will also play Nottingham Q's as well as the British grass court futures.
He now has a huge oppotunity to play the main bulk of his matches for this year in a shot space of time, which is both taxing mentally & physically but will enable to him to go skywards with success, as we all hope Dan Evans & Smethurst do too.

After Wimbledon the only junior events you are likely to see these guys in are the Euros, Canada G1 & the US Open. For financial/sponsorship reasons if any of our British guys have a chance of finishing top ten then they may take in Osaka, Eddie Herr & Orange Bowl but I can assure you that they will be playing far more futures from Wimbledon onwards - you could look at it this way, that the first half of the year has been preparation for the next 12 months.

I would like to finish by saying that whether Dan reaches the top 10 ATP or stays where he is, it comes down to one person & that is Dan himself, he has the oppotunity to work with some truely world class coaches but what ever  advise is giving to him, can only be delivered on the match court by Dan himself.

In Britain we enjoy the fall back on the LTA or the coaches if things dont go how we had hoped but the truth is the player is the one in control on the match court, where ultimately the are judged & make a career for themselves.
I would like to see in the future players, parents, fans etc encourging the player to take control & accountabilty for what is happening on the match court.

The coaches our British players get to work with have worked with several grand slam champions & world number ones, so it is obvious it is not the coaches! I was fortunate enough to work with a Russian coach who again was blamed for not producing but the truth is, she worked players harder than anyone ever before or since but was realeased & within a few months was sitting in the box of her new player at the final of the French Open!!!
We have the expert coaches & the talented players but we need to stop as players & fans expecting the coaches to do it all!! Coaches BUILD players, players MAKE players!!!

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That's more like it...

I hope he is able to pull out of his slump soon.

smile.gif

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Unfortunately Niall joined Cox on the sidelines in R1 losing 7/5 5/7 6/3 to SPIR JUAN-CARLOS (COL)

But Thompson pulls another cracker out of the bag defeating 4th seed and #8 ranked MARCELO AREVALO from El Salvador 6/1 7/5 clap.gifclap.gif


In the girls draw

Amy Askew lost to Bartnik 6-0 6-3

Emily Askew lost 6-3 6-0

Jade won R2 6-3 6-3 against KATARENA PALIIVETS of Belguim and now faces PITER KATARZYNA (POL) the 6th seed.

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Doubles Round 2

CURTIS (GBR) / HOFMANOVA (AUT) (2) defeated BIRO (HUN) / MAGNUSSON (SWE) 6-3 6-4

Quarterfinal

MESTACH (BEL) / OYEN (BEL) defeated LERTCHEEWAKARN (THA) / ROMPIES (INA) (1) 4-6 6-1 [10-3]
LINHOVA (CZE) / MONTEZ (MEX) defeated KOLESNICHENKO (UZB) / YANG (HKG) (5) 6-4 6-3
KICHENOK (UKR) / KICHENOK (UKR) (6) Vs EJDESGAARD (DEN) / LEMOINE (NED)
CURTIS (GBR) / HOFMANOVA (AUT) (2) defeated BARTNIK (USA) / BURDETTE (USA) (8) 6-4 7-5


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