Boys & Girls: ITF Juniors - Roehampton - ITF Grade 1 - 2008.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Boys & Girls: ITF Juniors - Roehampton - ITF Grade 1 - 2008.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Main draw WCs -

Thompson
Pauffley
Smethurst
Frederico Gaio (ITA)

Carpenter
Marsalek
McCulloch
George Morgan

Moore
Brook
Broady
Rae
Watson
Windley
Vickers
Coco Vandeweghe (USA)

First of all, most of the choices are poor. Why give them to Brook or Broady instead of Amy Askew?

And secondly, why on earth is the LTA giving them to non-Brits? Surely this is a British tournament and our players should get the chance? Pathetic decision, I must say - I did expect them at Wimbly, where the LTA doesn't have much say, but not here.

Louise02 · Improver

Windley is also a '90.
The question to be raised is:
Should these tournaments be used to give younger players the experience? Or should they be used to try to let older, perhaps better and more experienced players the chance to prove themselves? The '90's girls will have undoubtedly have more experience and are perhaps better players, shown by their rankings.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Oops, forgot to point out Windley!

I think they should be given to the younger players as far as the girls are concerned, always. Let us look at the three '90 girls who have been given WCs -

Broady - a brilliant grass player for sure, and probably an outside contender for the Wimbledon title. But she is not very young (socially she is, but not in tennis) and will gain little tenniswise even if she does take the title. All she can gain from this are sponsors! Now the point is, surely you can't give someone a WC because it'll help them with sponsors if there are people who can benefit from it tenniswise!

Windley and Brook - these are far more absurd. They aren't exactly favourites to go deep into the draw (and I'll be glad to be proven wrong) so the question of sponsors doesn't arise. Also, they are at the end of their Junior careers (Windley will probably play no more after Wimbly), so they will gain nothing from the points they can get by winning a few rounds. So it's probably a lose-lose situation for British tennis...

Now let us contrast this with the case of Amy Askew. She is 1993 born and has at least two years of Juniors left ahead of her and given that she seems to be quite gifted, she can go far if she trains hard enough. If they had given her the WC, she could have put the opportunity for points, experience and sponsors - all into good use. But instead of rewading her, the opportunity is given to girls who inspite of being quite talented, aren't bothered enough to get their Junior rankings up to a level that can get them a direct entry.

-- Edited by Greenleaf at 20:24, 2008-06-08

Louise02 · Improver

I don't think it's a question of being bothered enough to get their rankings up to the stage that they can get into Main Draw off their own accord.
So if you think that Amy Askew could go further than the 90's in the draw, do you also think that she would beat them? Surely the LTA would benefit more from putting their strongest players in the draw rather than using the tournament as an opportunity to expose some juniors who then aren't that successful?
According to her record, Jade Windley has been successful in WTA events this year, and I have been told that Brook is in full-time schooling. I don't think these two girls have done particularly badly, considering the circumstances. According to their ITF rankings and achievements this year with relation to the fact that the tournament is for Under 18's, I believe that they fully deserve what they have been awarded.

Salmon · Tennis legend

No, neither will Askew beat any of Brook, Broady and Windley, nor will she go further than any of them. My point isn't that, my point is that she's younger and wild cards should go to younger people - the 1990 girls are beyond AER and don't need to play ITFs.

Windley and Brooks have done quite well given the circumstances. Brook as you say, studies full time and Windley was at school till recently, I think. But in later life the WTA will give nothing to you for the amount of Maths or English you know! If they haven't got a ranking within the top 50 after 5 possible years of Junior tennis, they simply don't deserve to be there. I respect whatever path an individual takes to the top 100 and I'm sure it's the best one for them but at the same time the biggest opprtunities should go to people following the more conventional routes, as that's how 90% of girls reach the top 100 in their life.

In women's tennis, normally it is: you start early, and you can get into the top 100 early; you start late and you probably don't get into the top 100 at all. Very harsh, I know, but empirically true. Of course, I wish Brook, Broady and Windley the best and hope they do well here - winning can only help you, however little.

Just my opinion, of course!

-- Edited by Greenleaf at 08:16, 2008-06-11

madfan · Social player

Are Morgan and Carpenter doing better on the World stage than Amy Askew? Dont really follow their results that much but didnt Amy win an U18 ITF recently? Maybe she isnt deemed to be so good on grass as she is on other surfaces...also, Draper mentioned Jack and George in his interview yesterday so maybe they are the "chosen 92s and 93s" at the moment.

This is all exciting stuff

Salmon · Tennis legend

Welcome to the forum!

Carpenter's doing as well as Amy, Morgan is not. Although when you consider that boys develop later, Morgan and Amy will be at the same level more or less, I guess.

Yes, Amy won a Grade 4 in NewZealand in Feb, plus as we all know, the Nationals last year. That's surely a far better CV than what many others with WCs have when you weight it with their ages!

I think that the aim of having 18s tourneys is not of getting titles but developing players for the long run. Does it matter if we have two players in the second round or no player in the second round if it means that we will get more top 100 players in the long run? An 18 year old can gain little tenniswise from doing well in Juniors. Is Fitzpatrick any better than she was twelve months ago? Contrast it with Elliott who didn't play Junior Wimbly last year...

The LTA want to give the older players a chance for publicity reasons only. Honestly, "an 18 year old won the Junior Wimbly" sounds far better to the common fan than "a 13 year old took Tammy Hendler to three sets in the second round" even though the latter is a far better achievement. We shouldn't expect the public to realise that if it were a true 18s tourney, with people like Wozniacki, Agnieszka Radwanska, Krajicek, Vaidisova etc. playing last year, Fitzpatrick would have been lucky to win a round.

-- Edited by Greenleaf at 09:49, 2008-06-11

Salmon · Tennis legend

Tara is three places off a direct entry and that could free up a WC. Thompson is just one place off a direct entry and that most probably will free up a WC.

It'll be best if Cox withdraws from this, I think, as he has had enough matchtime for Wimbly Juniors - 3 at Wimbly prequalies, 3 at Nottingham and at least one at Wimbly qualies. If he does well here and at Wimbly Juniors (which he's more than capable of), he'll go into the grass Futures/Challengers having played an incredible number of matches in three weeks of time. His ranking will be hurt, no doubt, but he probably won't be playing Juniors after Wimbly anyway.

Goldenslam · Intermediate Club Player

Greenleaf - i think I am finding myself agreeing with you for the first time, Dan has played very well over the last couple of weeks, he should train this week so he is fresh for Wimby, given how he is playing he has got to be a realistic shot for the title.

Amy Askew will be a WC, I can assure you that!!!!

Salmon · Tennis legend

Nice.

I thhink we have three people who are outside contenders - Cox, Evans and Willis. Tomic and Janowicz are favourites, especially Janowicz.

Salmon · Tennis legend

Qualifiers -

Barnes
Watling
Smethurst (no, you're not reading wrong - Smethurst was in qualies)
Hodgson

Cunningham
Slater
Banos Gregorians (!)
Whybourn

All results can be found here - http://www.itftennis.com/juniors/tournaments/drawsheetbyround.asp?tournament=1100016812&event=1100094741&round=1

The LTA have lost it totally with the younger players. First we have players capable of giving top 100 players a match playing pointless Junior tourneys; then we have a unique case of someone being good enough for a Queen's main draw WC but somehow not for a Wimbly qualies one; then Askew not getting a WC into this but 18 year olds like Windley and Brook getting them; followed by Willis not getting one for qualies; but this one tops them all...

Daniel Smethurst, one of the best fast surface players in the world at 18s level, not getting a WC for Roehampton.

Is there any possible logic behind this (even a far fetched one will do)? This guy took a set off Eysseric here last year, plus won the only G1 in the world that's played on Carpet. Clearly doesn't deserve it - let's give it to Gaio who'll help British tennis a lot with a fine straight sets loss.

-- Edited by Greenleaf at 18:57, 2008-06-20

Goldenslam · Intermediate Club Player

Qualifiers for this was yesterday in the boys the players who qualied are as follows...from memory!!

Lewis Barnes (had 2 v v good wins)
Dan Smethurst
Dom Hodgson
Tom Knights
Devan Britton USA
Dane Propaggia AUS

& 2 others

Girls -
Lisa Whybourn
thats all I can remember!!

Main draw starts Sunday....all welcome to come down to the NTC & watch!!!!!!

Salmon · Tennis legend

Sorry for the cross posting of the results! Do you know if Cox will be playing?

Goldenslam · Intermediate Club Player

Cox will be playing this. Smethy had WC for MD but due to admin error stepped a side for choudry who has MD WC, obviously more chance of Smethy Qing than James.
Loads of Brits MD for tomorrow's draw!!!