ATP - Rotterdam (€824,000) - R1: Murray vs Haase

steven · Tennis legend

RE: ATP - Rotterdam (€824,000) - R1: Murray vs Haase

Armchair · County player

From the BBC site:
"I had trouble with my return game," said Murray. "The court here is much slower than in Marseille."

Well surely one of the things a top 10 player needs to do is be able to adjust to different surfaces.
It also makes you admire Federer even more for keeping his motivation going over such a long period.

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

Armchair wrote:

From the BBC site:
"I had trouble with my return game," said Murray. "The court here is much slower than in Marseille."

Well surely one of the things a top 10 player needs to do is be able to adjust to different surfaces.
It also makes you admire Federer even more for keeping his motivation going over such a long period.

well yes but when was the last time Federer played two weeks in a row? (ie two tournaments in a row, grand slams don't count!).

He struggles to chance surface that quickly as well: the back to back masters he rarely plays the second one (if he reaches the final I mean) and when he does he's much more vulnerable, often losing in the early rounds.

So basically, whilst I agree with you in theory I think you'll find that even top 10 players require a day or two to get used to a different surface.

Armchair · County player

I'm sure you're right Imoen, but it's really disheartening to have seen Andy go out in the Aus Open, miss the Davis Cup and then todays defeat.
It's great to see the 'giant killing' matches when he beats a higher seed but I would like to see some consistency as well.

Madeline · Admin:Moderator + Tennis Legend

Oh dear.

Haase is definitely a "banana skin" though; he has several times beaten a top 20 or even top 10 player in the first or second round, but the reason he is not more highly ranked than 94 is because he rarely follows that up.

I'm not too downhearted - yet. But he had better do better than that in Dubai or I will be getting out my big stick

wolf · Tennis legend

imoen wrote:
well yes but when was the last time Federer played two weeks in a row? (ie two tournaments in a row, grand slams don't count!).

He played Madrid Masters, ATP Basle, Paris Masters 3 weeks in a row at the back end of last year.

RobC · All-time great

Nalbandian beat him a couple of times if I remember?

helki · Futures qualifying

steven wrote:

Unfortunately, I did see most of it - a classic 'lazy English' performance with no aggression, moonball returns and dodgy droppers when he couldn't be bothered to do anything else. Maybe he wants a rest befor Dubai & IW, but I think it would have been better to take advantage of the good draw here and try to get a top 8 seeding for IW - he might get Fed in the L16 in Dubai too!

'lazy English'? Am I missing something here?

helki · Futures qualifying

wolf wrote:

imoen wrote:
well yes but when was the last time Federer played two weeks in a row? (ie two tournaments in a row, grand slams don't count!).
He played Madrid Masters, ATP Basle, Paris Masters 3 weeks in a row at the back end of last year.

I'm merely guessing at this, but to compare the number of tournaments Ferdy enters now won't stand up. To compare the number he entered at the same stage of his career as Andy is at the moment, would be a better analogy surely?

steven · Tennis legend

helki - "lazy English" was his nickname at Sanchez-Casal (apparently), and seems to me like a very good nickname when he plays one of his passive matches like the one today, moonballs, dodgy droppers and all.

steven · Tennis legend

helki wrote:
I'm merely guessing at this, but to compare the number of tournaments Ferdy enters now won't stand up. To compare the number he entered at the same stage of his career as Andy is at the moment, would be a better analogy surely?

Fed's about 6 years and 2-3 months younger than Andy, so let's look at late March-May 2002.

Miami: FINAL - L to Agassi

2 week break

Monte Carlo: R2 - L to Numpty

Another break

Rome: R1 - L to Gaudenzi
Hamburg: WON - v Safin

1 week break

Roland Garros: R1 - L to Arazi

In June, he played three consecutive weeks:

Halle: SF - L to Kiefer
s'Hertogenbosch: QF - L to Schalken
Wimbledon: R1 - L to Ancic

He then got revenge against Arazi in Gstaad before going on a 4-match losing streak (Stepanek, Canas, Ljubicic, Massu), three of them on N American hard courts.

Make of that what you will smile

imoen · Admin: Moderator+Tennis Legend

I wasn't trying to defend Andy's loss and I agree, Armchair I really wish he'd find some consistency. But my point was that it's not as clear cut as all top 10 players can play well in back to back tournaments. Each player needs to find the balance that they can achieve, Fed does this by not competing week in week out, but winning all his tournaments. Davydenko does it by playing week in week out but winning very few, consistently getting to the quarters and semis. Andy probably needs to find something between the two, whatever is best for him and allows him to be more consistent.

helki · Futures qualifying

Ain't this strange. weirdface

The only seed left in the tournament is Nadal, who's playing at the moment. Davy-donkey, Berdych and Ferrer have all bitten the dust recently to join Baggy, Murray, Ferrero and Youzhny on the sidelines. What an opportunity missed by the Scottish One! ashamed

Must be something in the water,

even Rafa's not getting it all his own way!

-- Edited by helki at 14:29, 2008-02-21

-- Edited by helki at 15:08, 2008-02-21

And now Rafa's gone 3-6 6-3 6-4 to Seppi. No seeds left!

-- Edited by helki at 16:13, 2008-02-21

DJ · County player

Now Rafa's gone, too!

Is this a record, no seeds reaching the quarters? Or will the ATP be investigating for possible betting coups - only joking, even the Fayeds of this world couldn't possibly imagine someone tapping-up all 8 seeds successfully.

murrayfan99 · Lower Club Player

That's a good point about the 8 man betting coup! I was worried by Haase (so much so that I took a bet on betfair - hoping I'd lose!)

I'm surprised by comments about Andy's consistency. Its a recurring theme on the bbc forums as well.

Actually my worry is the opposite i.e. that he might turn out to be a "Davydenko-with-style" kind of player. Someone who can go deep in plenty of tournaments every year but never quite reach the top - because finesse isnt enough - you need to hammer the ball a lot more than Andy does. Worst of all it sounds like he was (for once) hammering the ball in the match when he damaged his wrist.

Does anyone else worry that Andy isnt going to get beyond the Davydenko level?