The following table shows how many of our team (BT:) picked each player to win their R1 (bottom half of the draw) match and how many of their team (AM:) did, so that we can see what are the crunch matches for the team comp.
Winners in bold.
Btw no, I didn't count them all LOL - it's one advantage of having all the data in a single Excel file!
= 5+ swing to us (BT) = 1+ swing to us (BT) = no effect on the team competition = 1+ swing to them (AM) = 5+ swing to them (AM)
BT: 23 / AM: 20 for (WC) Thomas Johansson - swing of 3 for BT BT: 2 / AM: 5 for Alberto Martin
BT: 5 / AM: 1 for Kristof Vliegen BT: 20 / AM: 24 for Paul-Henri Mathieu - swing of 4 for AM
BT: 13 / AM: 25 for (WC) Gustavo Kuerten BT: 12 / AM: 0 for (Q) Raemon Sluiter - swing of 12 for BT
BT: 22 / AM: 17 for Paul Goldstein - swing of 5 for BT BT: 3 / AM: 8 for (WC) Ryan Sweeting
BT: 16 / AM: 18 for Juan Monaco - swing of 2 for AM BT: 9 / AM: 7 for (Q) Robin Haase
BT: 0 / AM: 1 for (Q) Simone Bolelli - swing of 1 for AM BT: 25 / AM: 24 for Gael Monfils
BT: 12 / AM: 22 for Paradorn Srichaphan BT: 13 / AM: 3 for Luis Horna - swing of 10 for BT
BT: 2 / AM: 3 for Martin Vassallo Arguello - swing of 1 for AM BT: 23 / AM: 22 for Hyung-Taik Lee
BT: 10 / AM: 9 for (Q) Chris Guccione BT: 15 / AM: 16 for Florent Serra - swing of 1 for AM
BT: 12 / AM: 21 for Nicolas Massu BT: 13 / AM: 4 for (Q) Feliciano Lopez - a swing of 9 for BT
BT: 13 / AM: 20 for Stefan Koubek BT: 12 / AM: 5 for Michael Llodra - a swing of 7 for BT
BT: 22 / AM: 21 for Max Mirnyi BT: 3 / AM: 4 for Daniele Bracciali - swing of 1 for AM
BT: 8 / AM: 16 for Jan Hajek BT: 17 / AM: 9 for (Q) Teimuraz Gabashvili - swing of 8 for BT
BT: 20 / AM: 15 for Juan Martin del Potro - swing of 5 for BT BT: 5 / AM: 10 for Jonas Bjorkman
BT: 17 / AM: 7 for (Q) Ivo Karlovic BT: 8 / AM: 18 for Guillermo Garcia-Lopez - swing of 10 for AM
BT: 25 / AM: 25 for Jan Hernych BT: 0 / AM: 0 for (Q) Ricardo Mello - everybody on both teams got it wrong!
We've won similar numbers of matches, but AM seem to win the ones where there is not much difference of opinion (all but one of the matches where opinions differed by less than 5) and BT seem to win the ones where there is a big difference of opinion (all but one of the matches where the opinions differed by 5 or more)
It's very clear looking at the numbers above that there are quite a lot of AM team members who go for the players most people have heard of (Srichaphan, Kuerten, Henman, etc), whereas those of us on BT are more likely to know how good people like Sluiter and 'bash are at causing upsets. That's the way round you'd expect when you have a site that concentrates mainly one one player playing against a site that concentrates on lots of players, so no big surprise there.
What it does mean is that the matches involving 'name' players who aren't near the top of the rankings any more are crunch matches for the team contest. For example:
AM went for Tigger 18-7, we made it almost equal at 13-12 - a 5 point swing to us if Canas wins, a 5 point swing to them if Tigger does (I'll still be cheering for him though!)
AM went for Gaudio 19-6, we went for R-H 14-11 - an 8 point swing to one team there.
AM went for C Rochus 16-9, we went for Santoro 21-4, a massive 12 point swing at stake there. I wonder if some of the AMs thought it was O Rochus. I'll look silly saying that if Christophe wins, of course!
AM went for Kuerten 25-0, 12 of us thought Sluiter would beat him - probably the Boggo fans with their unhappy memories! A 12-point swing to us.
Also Srichaphan's loss and 'bash's win follow this pattern, and I wonder if the swing in the Kuznetsov match has something to do with the similarity of the name to Kuznetsova ...
Going against my tinpot 'theory' though - AM went for Garcia-Lopez 18-7, while we went for Karlovic 17-8 - that one is harder to explain since I'd say Karlovic is more well-known. They got it right too!
It's pretty clear that if the golden oldies (Tigger, Guga, etc) have a good run, AM might wipe the floor with us. Funny that they're relying on the older players, given that the average age there is thought to be lower than it is here.
-- Edited by steven at 04:00, 2007-03-22
-- Edited by steven at 00:20, 2007-03-23
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Winner picks (since this is the other one that's easy to do) ...
1 (RedCabbage - BT) went for Tommy Haas 4 (Donna, mintsauce, murraymaniac & SarahWiser - all AM) went for Andy M 5 (andyjmr, DUSTY, goldfish from BT and vamos, AndysIpod from AM) went for Rafa
The other 40 (21 from BT and 19 from AM all went for Federer) - so we do have an advantage there in every case except Andy winning the title.
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Hmm - interesting, so we could probably increase our chances in future if we made sure that we had a good spread of potential winners: one of us Nadal, one A-Rod, one Undertaker....... not a massive sacrifice if the Fed does win, but a big gain if there's a surprise.....
thats true rob, possibly by coodrinating you could get some good reuslts in the end, but then that maybe kinda takes away from the indvidual element of the game.
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Count Zero - Creator of the Statistical Tennis Extrapolation & Verification ENtity or, as we like to call him, that steven.
Thanks for doing all this Steven, it's really interesting.
With regards to the Karlovic match I think your theory still holds if you remember that Karlovic is famous for being only a serve and hence the AM members may think him (quite rightly) more likely to lose.
I'm a little surprised at how few people went for Vassallo Arguello, he's on a slow rise in the rankings and has had some good results at Challenger level, although thinking about it I probably only know that from being a geek with the rankings
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Lol, I think that pretty much explains the Vassello Arguello one Bethan ! All the non-anoraks among us had never heard of him Well, I vaguely remember watching Parmar beat him in Miami a few years back but that's about it !
Maybe Garcia-Lopez got picked because he's a Spaniard and with the Nadal-Ferrero-Moya-Ferrer theory, people expect him to be good ?
Amazed that Karlo lost to him though !! Also amazed at the Gucci result, for some reason the tight matches just haven't gone his way since Jan....my big duff pick was probably picking Kuerten to beat Sluiter. Didn't think Sluiter would play that well after all that time out.
Wonder if he'll get in the Dutch DC team now...could make things a little more tricky.
The Guccione result was far from a surprise. That man can't play 20% of his best tennis out of Australia. Between the last week of August and now, he hasn't won two rounds at an event (not even in Challengers, where he usually gets seeded) except for his great run in South America.
The events in South America were all played at high altitudes - Medellin, Bogota and Quito - so his serve was practically unstoppable.
The following table shows how many of our team (BT:) picked each player to win their R1 (top half of the draw) match and how many of their team (AM:) did, so that we can see what are the crunch matches for the team comp.
I'll bold the winners when known.
= 5+ swing to us (BT) = 1+ swing to us (BT) = no effect on the team competition = 1+ swing to them (AM) = 5+ swing to them (AM)
BT: 3 / AM: 2 for (PR) Igor Andreev BT: 22 / AM: 23 for (WC) Sam Querrey - swing of 1 for AM
BT: 12 / AM: 20 for (WC) Alex Kuznetsov BT: 13 / AM: 5 for Potito Starace - swing of 8 for BT
BT: 13 / AM: 18 for Tim Henman BT: 12 / AM: 7 for (Q) Guillermo Canas - unwanted swing of 5 for us
BT: 1 / AM: 1 for (PR) Martin Verkerk BT: 24 / AM: 24 for Sebastian Grosjean - no swing
BT: 1 / AM: 5 for Sergio Roitman BT: 24 / AM: 20 for Philipp Kohlschreiber
BT: 14 / AM: 6 for Ruben Ramirez Hidalgo BT: 11 / AM: 19 for Gaston Gaudio
BT: 9 / AM: 8 for Igor Kunitsyn BT: 16 / AM: 17 for Florian Mayer - swing of 1 for AM
BT: 0 / AM: 0 for (Q) Kevin Kim - everyone on both teams got this wrong BT: 25 / AM: 25 for Benjamin Becker
BT: 15 / AM: 14 for Danai Udomchoke BT: 10 / AM: 11 for Simon Greul - swing of 1 for AM
BT: 2 / AM: 1 for (Q) Amer Delic - swing of 1 for BT BT: 23 / AM: 24 for Julien Benneteau
BT: 17 / AM: 21 for Janko Tipsarevic BT: 8 / AM: 4 for (Q) Andreas Seppi
BT: 2 / AM: 3 for Albert Montanes BT: 23 / AM: 22 for Arnaud Clement
BT: 19 / AM: 19 for Robby Ginepri BT: 6 / AM: 6 for Vincent Spadea - no swing
BT: 15 / AM: 10 for (LL) Evgeny Korolev - swing of 5 for BT BT: 10 / AM: 15 for Marc Gicquel
BT: 4 / AM: 16 for Christophe Rochus BT: 21 / AM: 9 for Fabrice Santoro
BT: 20 / AM: 21 for Nicolas Mahut BT: 5 / AM: 4 for Filippo Volandri
-- Edited by steven at 04:19, 2007-03-23
-- Edited by steven at 04:20, 2007-03-23
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Final bit of analysis before I go - this time for R2:
BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (1) Roger Federer will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 20 / AM: 17 think (29) Nicolas Almagro will win - possible 'swing' is 6 points BT: 8 / AM: 12 think (19) Juan Carlos Ferrero will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 24 / AM: 23 think (15) Richard Gasquet will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (9) Tommy Haas will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 19 / AM: 17 think (24) Radek Stepanek will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 19 / AM: 20 think (28) Fernando Verdasco will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 18 / AM: 17 think (6) Tommy Robredo will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (4) Nikolay Davydenko will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 11 / AM: 10 think (31) Jose Acasuso will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 24 / AM: 22 think (23) Juan Ignacio Chela will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 18 / AM: 23 think (14) Tomas Berdych will win - possible 'swing' is 10 points BT: 18 / AM: 20 think (11) David Nalbandian will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 18 / AM: 22 think (20) Jarkko Nieminen will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 19 / AM: 23 think (27) Carlos Moya will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 23 / AM: 24 think (7) Ivan Ljubicic will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 24 / AM: 25 think (5) Fernando Gonzalez will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 10 / AM: 14 think (26) Jurgen Melzer will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 25 / AM: 23 think (18) Lleyton Hewitt will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (12) Andy Murray will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 24 think (13) David Ferrer will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 11 / AM: 11 think (21) Dmitry Tursunov will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 17 / AM: 10 think (32) Gilles Simon will win - possible 'swing' is 14 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (3) Andy Roddick will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 24 / AM: 25 think (8) James Blake will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 22 / AM: 22 think (25) Marat Safin will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 17 / AM: 20 think (22) Dominik Hrbaty will win - possible 'swing' is 6 points BT: 25 / AM: 23 think (10) Novak Djokovic will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 25 / AM: 24 think (16) Mikhail Youzhny will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 17 / AM: 23 think (17) Marcos Baghdatis will win - possible 'swing' is 12 points BT: 19 / AM: 13 think (30) Olivier Rochus will win - possible 'swing' is 12 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (2) Rafael Nadal will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points
N.B. You can't assume that if N people from each board think a given seed will win then 25 - N think the player he is facing in R2 will win. The most extreme example is the Tursunov match, where 14 people from each board predict that he would lose, but all of them predicted he would lose to Monfils not Bolelli, who shocked Monfils in R1.
This should still be a reasonably good guide to which matches are the crunch matches for the team competition though.
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BT: 17 / AM: 10 think (32) Gilles Simon will win - possible 'swing' is 14 points BT: 19 / AM: 13 think (30) Olivier Rochus will win - possible 'swing' is 12 points BT: 20 / AM: 17 think (29) Nicolas Almagro will win - possible 'swing' is 6 points BT: 19 / AM: 17 think (24) Radek Stepanek will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 25 / AM: 23 think (18) Lleyton Hewitt will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 24 / AM: 22 think (23) Juan Ignacio Chela will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 25 / AM: 23 think (10) Novak Djokovic will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 18 / AM: 17 think (6) Tommy Robredo will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 24 / AM: 23 think (15) Richard Gasquet will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 11 / AM: 10 think (31) Jose Acasuso will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 25 / AM: 24 think (16) Mikhail Youzhny will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 25 / AM: 24 think (13) David Ferrer will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (9) Tommy Haas will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (1) Roger Federer will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (4) Nikolay Davydenko will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (12) Andy Murray will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 11 / AM: 11 think (21) Dmitry Tursunov will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (3) Andy Roddick will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 22 / AM: 22 think (25) Marat Safin will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 25 / AM: 25 think (2) Rafael Nadal will win - possible 'swing' is 0 points BT: 24 / AM: 25 think (8) James Blake will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 24 / AM: 25 think (5) Fernando Gonzalez will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 23 / AM: 24 think (7) Ivan Ljubicic will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 19 / AM: 20 think (28) Fernando Verdasco will win - possible 'swing' is 2 points BT: 18 / AM: 20 think (11) David Nalbandian will win - possible 'swing' is 4 points BT: 17 / AM: 20 think (22) Dominik Hrbaty will win - possible 'swing' is 6 points BT: 19 / AM: 23 think (27) Carlos Moya will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 8 / AM: 12 think (19) Juan Carlos Ferrero will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 18 / AM: 22 think (20) Jarkko Nieminen will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 10 / AM: 14 think (26) Jurgen Melzer will win - possible 'swing' is 8 points BT: 18 / AM: 23 think (14) Tomas Berdych will win - possible 'swing' is 10 points BT: 17 / AM: 23 think (17) Marcos Baghdatis will win - possible 'swing' is 12 points
(matches played on Friday in bold)
I've re- ordered the table, so it's in order of the expected swing: At the top is a swing to us if a seed wins, at the bottom is a swing to am.com if a seed wins:
So we'll do really well if Gilles Simon beats Horna. We'll do really badly if Baggy beats Del Potro
I thought I would refloat the Miami analysis and look at tonight's interesting remaining matches ...
Canas-Gasquet analysis
20 BTs and 20 AMs went for Gasquet.
Just seagull (BT), who will jump from 3rd to 1st if he gets the right result here, and Wimblyfan (AM), who will jump from 39th to 29th, picked Canas.
Others hoping that Canas will win to limit the damage caused by not picking either are:
Wallace (BT), who went for Seba Grosjean Guy (BT), David Edwards (AM) & Speedy (AM), who went for Tigger Imoen (BT), DUSTY (BT), Spraggz (AM) & Donna (AM), who went for JC Ferrero.
Nalby-Nieminen analysis
15 BTs and 16 AMs went for big Dave, so AM.com will close the gap by 4 if he wins.
8 BTs (RedCabbage, who could move into 1st place if the result goes his way, JohnnyLad, Rob Harris, eblunt, Rochelle, Wallace, Akhenaten and Imoen) and 5 AMs (Allan, Speedy, Vimto and Jambon and Matt) plus non-team Bellamy went for Nieminen, so BT will extend their lead by 12 if he wins.
Those also hoping for Nieminen to win to limit the damage are:
Grundon from BT, who picked Korolev and is likely to lose his outright R3-only lead as a result Vamos from AM, who picked Gicquel lj2007 & Sarah from AM who went for Ginepri
Santoro-Ljubo analysis
21 BTs and 18 AMs went for Ljubo, so BT will extend their lead by 12 if he wins.
Only Rob H (BT) went for Santoro - he could move into the top 10 if Fabrice wins.
Other people hoping Santoro will win to limit the damage from not having picked either of them are:
Grundon from BT, who went for Mahut 2 from BT (mkkreuk & Josh) plus 7 from AM (Sound, silk, vamos, Speedy, Allyb, mintsauce & Matt F ), who all went for Moya.
-- Edited by steven at 22:22, 2007-03-26
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