Week 34 - US Open Men's Qualifying - Hard

goldenboy · Club Coach

RE: Week 34 - US Open Men's Qualifying - Hard

Robin · Lower Club Player

Great that James got through, he's been very steady lately and I fully expect for him to be around 100 pretty soon.

Gutted about Evo and it's been tough following him all year with those points getting closer to be lost. Like Priesty said its going to be a long way back and doubly so because he had a great opportunity to make top 100. Hopefully he puts in maximum effort for the rest of the year to recover his ranking.

korriban · Challenger level

Robin wrote:
Great that James got through, he's been very steady lately and I fully expect for him to be around 100 pretty soon.

Gutted about Evo and it's been tough following him all year with those points getting closer to be lost. Like Priesty said its going to be a long way back and doubly so because he had a great opportunity to make top 100. Hopefully he puts in maximum effort for the rest of the year to recover his ranking.

Hopefully just about sums it up. I suspect that virtually none of us EXPECT him to put in maximum effort, like most top professionals would do, so HOPE is all there is. Some people just aren't cut out for the lonely, no compromises, maximum effort, day in day out, graft over talent, life of a pro tour player......no shame in that........it's just we don't have a massive pool of top players to start with, and some of our top 10 players (mens and womens) appear to graft in bursts or have alternative interests......which, with regret.......

indiana · Tennis legend

Speaking more generally than Evo, who is his own special "case", I again find myself a bit at odds with you on these sort of issues, korriban. At least we are consistent :)

For many tennis players, and sports people generally, I would say that "alternative interests" are not only often fine, but in some cases almost necessary. You can't work at tennis all day, every day, and taking part in other things that interest you, related to or completely away from tennis, can be good, to help avoid going stir crazy in some instances. Indeed, for some players, I can see that distracting themselves the night before or even the day of a very important match will leave them more relaxed and ready to go than total focus on tennis.

The totally focussed, tennis is my whole life, may suit some, good, but won't suit others, for whom it may lead to them losing the love of tennis and / or burn out. Clearly there are "alternative interests" and "alternative interests", but I honestly have raised my eyebrows at a few things you have queried over the months.

Anyway, just saying.

korriban · Challenger level

Indy. I absolutely DON'T mean that our top sportmen and sportswomen shouldn't have other interests or even distractions to round them off as individuals, give them balance, and keep them "real". I think it's healthy, in fact.

I just think that for some, the balance appears to be all wrong, or perhaps the distractions appear to be almost what defines those people as individuals, or even (in extreme cases) that those alternative interests are completely at odds with a career as a world class level athlete.

Some of our tennis top 10 players have appeared to be overweight, immobile and/or unfit at times in their careers relative to acceptable levels of world class athletes. Some have clearly not trained, practiced or prepared themselves adequately for matches at times. Some behave in a petulant, needy or prima-donna-ish way as upcoming players almost as though they had already "arrived" and require "respect". And for some the commercial and media opportunities come their way before the sporting glory has been achieved.......at the extreme, some may even deliberately do the opposite of what is professional to somehow stick 2 fingers up at the system.

......for others in our top 10 or top 25, certainly the majority, they do everything they can to maximise their talent, which may or may not ever bear fruit. Evo doesn't appear to be part of this second grouping.......and clearly IS in the first. For him to move from the second to the first grouping (for thats what is really being discussed here)......well there's HOPE but not much else. For those in group one, distractions clearly are over the top.

-- Edited by korriban on Thursday 21st of August 2014 04:40:17 PM

indiana · Tennis legend

To me, working hard and grafting and certainly not being unfit are largely separate issues from having other offcourt interests. It is about the right focus at the right time.

I don't see that such as taking up media work, attending functions, generally enjoying other aspects, need conflict with full attention and graft at tennis when necessary.

No denying it could at times, depending on the personality and the alternative interest.

But to my mind, far too much adding 2 and 2 together and quite possibly getting quite the wrong answer.

Spectator · All-time great

Having (many) outside interests does not appear to have kept the Williams sisters from having long and successful careers - indeed, those who decried them for their lack of focus now acknowledge that it's precisely their ability to do other things that has helped them not to burn out. That's an extreme example - but I would agree with Indiana that it is perfectly feasible to work hard, be entirely committed, and still need to do other things just to keep a sense of balance. The difference may be that we see (thanks to social media and media coverage) more of some players' outside interests than we do of others'.

RJA · Hall of fame

Spectator wrote:
The difference may be that we see (thanks to social media and media coverage) more of some players' outside interests than we do of others'.

To a degree I can accept this but how a player chooses to present themselves on social media is very telling. It is perfectly possible for players to talk about their outside interests and their social life while maintaining the image of a professional sportsman but there are some players whose social media activity gives the very strong impression that they are anything but a professional sportsman.

EddietheEagle · County player

'Alternative interests' so-called, which directly detract from the llifestyle demanded of a career, can hardly be described as supportive. When a player appears to make a point of highlighting aspects of his life diametrically opposed to his tennis as though somehow that's where his heart really lies, is it any surprise that his commitment is questioned as above?

I know we read all the stuff about fashion design and so on about the Williams sisters but that is nearly all bullsh.it fashioned by publicists. Top players, generally speaking, lead very closeted lives. What creeps out is what they want us to know. Agassi was a master at that. I suspect the Williams sisters are highly disciplined in their personal lives and don't let the outside stuff infringe too much on the tennis or the equally serious business of accumulating wealth.

There are plenty of players on the circuit who indulge against their better interests, smoke dope, take ecstasy, whatever. They're the journeymen. I wouldn't over-criticise Evans for the way he lives as he is hardly unique and there will be harder workers along who will rapidly take his place. Perspiration wins out over talent in tennis.

scottie1 · Futures level

All of this discussion about Dan Evans proves that people care about him and want him to succeed and realise his talent. There are other British guys on the tour who work really hard but don't have half the talent. If I was at a tournament I would always go watch Dan Evans his matches are never boring!!!!!!!!

korriban · Challenger level

RJA wrote:
Spectator wrote:
The difference may be that we see (thanks to social media and media coverage) more of some players' outside interests than we do of others'.
To a degree I can accept this but how a player chooses to present themselves on social media is very telling. It is perfectly possible for players to talk about their outside interests and their social life while maintaining the image of a professional sportsman but there are some players whose social media activity gives the very strong impression that they are anything but a professional sportsman.

I agree. Heartily. When a player, whilst immensely talented perhaps, but in relative terms and on the global stage, one who has achieved almost nothing in the game....... tweets images time and time again of the commercial, marketing, social, media and other events they go to, in many cases for free, giving shout outs to their hairdressers, their dress providers, their shoe providers, and those that give them free headphones, ipads, goodie bags, etc........I accept that this doesn't mean they aren't taking their job very very seriously behind the scenes, but it might indicate that they are getting ahead of themselves, and that when they don't seem to make much progress on boring fundamentals like fitness, athleticism and movement over many years, it's somewhat more difficult to be sympathetic.

Similarly, when those tweets involve bars, drinking, night clubs, parties, footie, late nights again and again and again, I once again accept that it doesn't mean that person is not extremely hard working in ALL aspects of their professional and sporting life, but it might indicate there is a potential character flaw which is incompatible with world level success in sport.......and again its somewhat more difficult to be sympathetic

Back to basics. James Ward to win in 2.....there's someone who appears to be giving tennis a damned good go at the moment. Good on him....

indiana · Tennis legend

Eddie, what I was questioning is whether such as media work or attending social functions, and indeed certain social media activity ( and these have been brought up from time to time ) DO detract from a tennis career. You get no argument from me that if the alternative interest ( or vice such as you have described ) does detract then you have issues, and clearly some interests and / or habits do.

But just a for instance, not a great mover and does media work and attends functions, does not at all necessarily mean does not work hard enough. Then again, maybe they could work harder, but I see much linkage made where no linkage need exist. Should they avoid activities with hardly any effect on their tennis, positively or negatively, just because some folk may choose to suggest that is some indicator of their work ethic ( and you don't see so and so, who may have a totally different personality doing that ) ? Not for me, and some players need to be given more of a break than they are sometimes shown. Others one can simply see are not fit enough, and that shows that they have issues, not their other interests.

I think you are maybe considering behaviors that more clearly are an issue as opposed to what korriban and I have discussed here and previously.

And it is not in my mind to do with Evo, who does concern me and has concerned me for quite some time, in that I'd just like him to be all he can be as a tennis player. You can have other interests and commit yourself sufficiently to tennis. I don't think he personally does.

Spectator · All-time great

korriban wrote:
RJA wrote:
Spectator wrote:
The difference may be that we see (thanks to social media and media coverage) more of some players' outside interests than we do of others'.
To a degree I can accept this but how a player chooses to present themselves on social media is very telling. It is perfectly possible for players to talk about their outside interests and their social life while maintaining the image of a professional sportsman but there are some players whose social media activity gives the very strong impression that they are anything but a professional sportsman.
I agree. Heartily. When a player, whilst immensely talented perhaps, but in relative terms and on the global stage, one who has achieved almost nothing in the game....... tweets images time and time again of the commercial, marketing, social, media and other events they go to, in many cases for free, giving shout outs to their hairdressers, their dress providers, their shoe providers, and those that give them free headphones, ipads, goodie bags, etc........I accept that this doesn't mean they aren't taking their job very very seriously behind the scenes, but it might indicate that they are getting ahead of themselves, and that when they don't seem to make much progress on boring fundamentals like fitness, athleticism and movement over many years, it's somewhat more difficult to be sympathetic.
Similarly, when those tweets involve bars, drinking, night clubs, parties, footie, late nights again and again and again, I once again accept that it doesn't mean that person is not extremely hard working in ALL aspects of their professional and sporting life, but it might indicate there is a potential character flaw which is incompatible with world level success in sport.......and again its somewhat more difficult to be sympathetic
Back to basics. James Ward to win in 2.....there's someone who appears to be giving tennis a damned good go at the moment. Good on him....

I would draw a distinction, Korriban, between your first and second paragraphs. If, for example, Ms Robson (and it is generally she to whom you object in these terms) chooses to tweet things that are primarily commercial - well, the reality is that it's what the WTA tour is encouraging all the young women to do, and I don't think one can object when one does. (One can, however, vehemently object that the WTA encourages it, and I do. These women are athletes, not models. If they want to enjoy themselves by getting dressed up, that's their business. But the fact that the WTA seems to feel that it can only sell women's tennis by emphasising people's looks sends all the wrong messages).

By contrast, bars, drinking and night clubs are not encouraged, are not professional, and certainly don't help fitness. As for football ... well, rule out tweets on that and so far as I can tell, you've just knocked out most male tennis players!

-- Edited by Spectator on Thursday 21st of August 2014 09:03:51 PM

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

OK, so he might not be British (yet) but six months might see things changes so . .

Well done to Bedene who wins his second match, 6-3 6-3,, and into the FQR.

And a cheer for 'Granddad Oscar' (Hernandez) who, at 36 and having barely played the last few years, has just done the same, 6-4 in the third.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

They've moved along nice and swiftly on court 13. James should be up very soon.

He should have thumped Millot last time they played - and that was Millot playing pretty much his normal level. James thoroughly deserved to win - the retirement was a red herring in terms of the result.

Vamos, James.