British Tennis Forum - Celebrating 20 Years!

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

RE: Weeks 27 & 28 - The Championships, Wimbledon (grass) - main draw

seagull · Hall of fame

Billy gets Lajovic

Sheddie · administrator

That's huge - as much as I'm a fan of Billy, I was struggling to see him getting past Hurkacz on grass

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
L128: Pedro Martínez (ESP) WR 52 (CH = 36 in February) vs (WC) George Loffhagen WR 302 (CH = 298 two weeks ago)
L128: (WC) Johannus Monday WR 236 (CH = 232 last week) vs (13) Tommy Paul (USA) WR 13 (CH = 8 at the start of the month)
L128: (4) Jack Draper WR 4 (= CH) vs Sebastián Báez (ARG) WR 38 (CH = 18 last June)
L128: Tomás Martín Etcheverry (ARG) WR 59 (CH = 27 in February last year) vs (WC) Jack Pinnington Jones WR 282 (= CH)
L128:  (WC) Daniel Evans WR 170 (CH = 21 in August 2023) vs (WC) Jay Clarke WR 199 (CH = 153 in July 2019)
L128: (20) Alexei Popyrin (AUS) WR 21 (= CH) vs (WC) Arthur Féry WR 465 (CH = 229 last August)
L128: Ethan Quinn (USA) WR 95 (= CH) vs (WC) Henry Searle WR 409 (CH = 389 in February)
L128: Jacob Fearnley WR 51 (CH = 49 two weeks ago) vs João Fonseca (BRA) WR 57 (= CH)
L128:  Mattia Bellucci (ITA) WR 74 (CH = 66 in April) vs (WC) Oliver Crawford WR 252 (CH = 190 in January last year)
L128: Cameron Norrie WR 61 (CH = 8 in September 2022 vs Roberto Bautista (ESP) WR 43 (CH = 9 in November 2019)
L128:  (Q) Oliver Tarvet WR 719 vs (Q) Leandro Riedi (SUI) WR 506

L128: Billy Harris WR 142 (CH = 101 last September) vs (LL) Dusan Lajovic (SRB) WR 118 (CH = 23 in April 2019)

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

Thats feels like a real break for Billy!

JonH comes home · Tennis legend

And hes not in a terrible part of the draw.

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Coup Droit wrote:
it's due to be SO hot on Monday - up to 35 degrees - full sun

the players who handle heat well, or who at least get an 11 am start, will have a serious advantage

From the Beeb's report on the amber health alert currently in force in the southern part of the country:

Temperatures are forecast to rise into the 30s over the weekend, coniciding with Glastonbury Festival, before reaching a new high for the year on Monday, when the Wimbledon tennis championship begins.

Monday could be the hottest day of the year so far with a temperature of 34C, possibly 35C in London towards the Cambridgeshire area, according to BBC Weather. The Met Office says London could reach 34-35C. That would make Monday the hottest ever start to Wimbledon too, exceeding the previous opening-day record of 29.3C in 2001 - although players and spectators can expect more comfortable temperatures in the 20s by the middle of next week.

The hottest day during Wimbledon as a whole was on 1 July 2015 when 35.7C was recorded.

I'm not planning even to venture outdoors!

Stircrazy · Tennis legend

Stircrazy wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
L128: Pedro Martínez (ESP) WR 52 (CH = 36 in February) vs (WC) George Loffhagen WR 302 (CH = 298 two weeks ago)
L128: (WC) Johannus Monday WR 236 (CH = 232 last week) vs (13) Tommy Paul (USA) WR 13 (CH = 8 at the start of the month)
L128: (4) Jack Draper WR 4 (= CH) vs Sebastián Báez (ARG) WR 38 (CH = 18 last June)
L128: Tomás Martín Etcheverry (ARG) WR 59 (CH = 27 in February last year) vs (WC) Jack Pinnington Jones WR 282 (= CH)
L128:  (WC) Daniel Evans WR 170 (CH = 21 in August 2023) vs (WC) Jay Clarke WR 199 (CH = 153 in July 2019)
L128: (20) Alexei Popyrin (AUS) WR 21 (= CH) vs (WC) Arthur Féry WR 465 (CH = 229 last August)
L128: Ethan Quinn (USA) WR 95 (= CH) vs (WC) Henry Searle WR 409 (CH = 389 in February)
L128: Jacob Fearnley WR 51 (CH = 49 two weeks ago) vs João Fonseca (BRA) WR 57 (= CH)
L128:  Mattia Bellucci (ITA) WR 74 (CH = 66 in April) vs (WC) Oliver Crawford WR 252 (CH = 190 in January last year)
L128: Cameron Norrie WR 61 (CH = 8 in September 2022 vs Roberto Bautista (ESP) WR 43 (CH = 9 in November 2019)
L128:  (Q) Oliver Tarvet WR 719 vs (Q) Leandro Riedi (SUI) WR 506
L128: Billy Harris WR 142 (CH = 101 last September) vs (LL) Dusan Lajovic (SRB) WR 118 (CH = 23 in April 2019)

A BBC article which kicks off with comments about Ollie T's indignation about the rule which prevents him from claiming a maximum of $10,000 + expenses per annum from any prize money he wins (though he's actually quite diplomatic about it) & moves on to Jay Clarke's comments on the barriers still confronting black players in the UK.

christ · Futures level

Stircrazy wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
Stircrazy wrote:
L128: Pedro Martínez (ESP) WR 52 (CH = 36 in February) vs (WC) George Loffhagen WR 302 (CH = 298 two weeks ago)
L128: (WC) Johannus Monday WR 236 (CH = 232 last week) vs (13) Tommy Paul (USA) WR 13 (CH = 8 at the start of the month)
L128: (4) Jack Draper WR 4 (= CH) vs Sebastián Báez (ARG) WR 38 (CH = 18 last June)
L128: Tomás Martín Etcheverry (ARG) WR 59 (CH = 27 in February last year) vs (WC) Jack Pinnington Jones WR 282 (= CH)
L128:  (WC) Daniel Evans WR 170 (CH = 21 in August 2023) vs (WC) Jay Clarke WR 199 (CH = 153 in July 2019)
L128: (20) Alexei Popyrin (AUS) WR 21 (= CH) vs (WC) Arthur Féry WR 465 (CH = 229 last August)
L128: Ethan Quinn (USA) WR 95 (= CH) vs (WC) Henry Searle WR 409 (CH = 389 in February)
L128: Jacob Fearnley WR 51 (CH = 49 two weeks ago) vs João Fonseca (BRA) WR 57 (= CH)
L128:  Mattia Bellucci (ITA) WR 74 (CH = 66 in April) vs (WC) Oliver Crawford WR 252 (CH = 190 in January last year)
L128: Cameron Norrie WR 61 (CH = 8 in September 2022 vs Roberto Bautista (ESP) WR 43 (CH = 9 in November 2019)
L128:  (Q) Oliver Tarvet WR 719 vs (Q) Leandro Riedi (SUI) WR 506
L128: Billy Harris WR 142 (CH = 101 last September) vs (LL) Dusan Lajovic (SRB) WR 118 (CH = 23 in April 2019)
A BBC article which kicks off with comments about Ollie T's indignation about the rule which prevents him from claiming a maximum of $10,000 + expenses per annum from any prize money he wins (though he's actually quite diplomatic about it) & moves on to Jay Clarke's comments on the barriers still confronting black players in the UK.

... the "barriers" that Mr Clarke - along with the others named in the article - has demonstrated are perfectly surmountable.

indiana · Tennis legend

To my mind that doesn't mean that there are not "barriers" nor that enough is being done to change things. Maybe at least some players' sucesses are being achieved in spite of ...

Clearly there were barriers in the past. I don't know anything like enough to say anything much re things currently. But the ethnic spread among our leading players proves nothing given say other possible social and motivational issues.

Coup Droit · Tennis legend

Yes
Just because a few of a certain group are successful doesn't mean that there are no 'barriers'
(I read barriers to be difficulties, fences that canbe climbed over with a ladder, rather than impossibilities, 200 ft walls)

If, say, 80% of a certain group live in areas with no public courts, then you'll still have some success from the other 20% and a few of the 80% whocan access private courts.

But it's certainly a barrier

Now, 'working class' children may have more of a barrier , class may be more important than ethnicity

Haven't seen stats, just stating an obvious possibility

But it doesn't mean Jay's wrong

christ · Futures level

On the subject of statistics it may be worth noting that - according to the 2021 census - the population of the UK is 82% white, 9% asian and 4% black (plus sundries). This seems to me to imply that asians are underrepresented, but that blacks are about right. Statistically. I don't have the numbers to hand (as, to be honest it doesn't matter to me, as I have never considered anyone's race when I follow them in tennis or anything else), but just having a quick rummage it seems to me that at least four of the UK's top hundred tennis players are black, which seems about right (statistically speaking).

I am absolutely of the opinion that class (or its proximate, wealth) is much more important than ethnicity (although ethnicity definitely plays its part). Race apart, look at the "class" of our top players (or, in truth all of our professional players), and it is blindingly obvious where the balance of power lies. This, of course, is true in all walks of life in the UK.

Unfortunately this means that "perceptual racism" is endemic - if you grow up in a neighbourhood with say 50% black population, then you may perceive anything less than 50% black participation in whatever you do as racial bias. (I am not particularly surprised, for example, when having only one or two black managers in the Football Premier League (out of twenty) is always reported as "underrepresentation" and a symptom of "institutional bias", and only 40% of the players being black is seen as "underrepresentation". Heaven forfend that anyone - presumably by definition a racist white nationalist - point out that whites are discriminated against by this logic.)

I think all (well, nearly all - billionaire's daughters don't count) professional tennis players face barriers to achievement be it geographical, institutional, financial, familial, medical, or yes, even racial, but the successful ones see those barriers as things to be overcome, not things to be moaned about.

KK · Club Coach

christ wrote:
On the subject of statistics it may be worth noting that - according to the 2021 census - the population of the UK is 82% white, 9% asian and 4% black (plus sundries). This seems to me to imply that asians are underrepresented, but that blacks are about right. Statistically. I don't have the numbers to hand (as, to be honest it doesn't matter to me, as I have never considered anyone's race when I follow them in tennis or anything else), but just having a quick rummage it seems to me that at least four of the UK's top hundred tennis players are black, which seems about right (statistically speaking).

I am absolutely of the opinion that class (or its proximate, wealth) is much more important than ethnicity (although ethnicity definitely plays its part). Race apart, look at the "class" of our top players (or, in truth all of our professional players), and it is blindingly obvious where the balance of power lies. This, of course, is true in all walks of life in the UK.

Unfortunately this means that "perceptual racism" is endemic - if you grow up in a neighbourhood with say 50% black population, then you may perceive anything less than 50% black participation in whatever you do as racial bias. (I am not particularly surprised, for example, when having only one or two black managers in the Football Premier League (out of twenty) is always reported as "underrepresentation" and a symptom of "institutional bias", and only 40% of the players being black is seen as "underrepresentation". Heaven forfend that anyone - presumably by definition a racist white nationalist - point out that whites are discriminated against by this logic.)

I think all (well, nearly all - billionaire's daughters don't count) professional tennis players face barriers to achievement be it geographical, institutional, financial, familial, medical, or yes, even racial, but the successful ones see those barriers as things to be overcome, not things to be moaned about.

Very well reasoned post, Christ.

Given the degree of skill needed to be acquired at a young age to become a professional tennis player, I believe the biggest advantage someone can have is a parent or parents who want their child to go down that route, preferably ones who can give some coaching in the early stages. Jay will have had that advantage with his sister, Jade being able to coach him. Money is obviously a big advantage, but the majority of rich parents don't want to spend their weekends hanging around at tennis tournaments.

Certainly my (not particularly rich) husband didn't want the whole family's weekend to be given up to tennis. As he had been working hard all week I could sort of understand that - even though I came from a family where weekends and school holidays had been dominated by another sport.

Var · Futures qualifying

KK wrote:
christ wrote:
On the subject of statistics it may be worth noting that - according to the 2021 census - the population of the UK is 82% white, 9% asian and 4% black (plus sundries). This seems to me to imply that asians are underrepresented, but that blacks are about right. Statistically. I don't have the numbers to hand (as, to be honest it doesn't matter to me, as I have never considered anyone's race when I follow them in tennis or anything else), but just having a quick rummage it seems to me that at least four of the UK's top hundred tennis players are black, which seems about right (statistically speaking).

I am absolutely of the opinion that class (or its proximate, wealth) is much more important than ethnicity (although ethnicity definitely plays its part). Race apart, look at the "class" of our top players (or, in truth all of our professional players), and it is blindingly obvious where the balance of power lies. This, of course, is true in all walks of life in the UK.

Unfortunately this means that "perceptual racism" is endemic - if you grow up in a neighbourhood with say 50% black population, then you may perceive anything less than 50% black participation in whatever you do as racial bias. (I am not particularly surprised, for example, when having only one or two black managers in the Football Premier League (out of twenty) is always reported as "underrepresentation" and a symptom of "institutional bias", and only 40% of the players being black is seen as "underrepresentation". Heaven forfend that anyone - presumably by definition a racist white nationalist - point out that whites are discriminated against by this logic.)

I think all (well, nearly all - billionaire's daughters don't count) professional tennis players face barriers to achievement be it geographical, institutional, financial, familial, medical, or yes, even racial, but the successful ones see those barriers as things to be overcome, not things to be moaned about.
Very well reasoned post, Christ.
Given the degree of skill needed to be acquired at a young age to become a professional tennis player, I believe the biggest advantage someone can have is a parent or parents who want their child to go down that route, preferably ones who can give some coaching in the early stages. Jay will have had that advantage with his sister, Jade being able to coach him. Money is obviously a big advantage, but the majority of rich parents don't want to spend their weekends hanging around at tennis tournaments.
Certainly my (not particularly rich) husband didn't want the whole family's weekend to be given up to tennis. As he had been working hard all week I could sort of understand that - even though I came from a family where weekends and school holidays had been dominated by another sport.

Or in the case of Mimi, tennis playing next door neighbours? Doesnt have to be family.

DavidC · Tennis legend

Monday matches

Jake - court 1 match 2
Cam - court 18 match 2
Oliver T - court 4 match 1
Henry - court 4 match 3
Arthur - court 15 match 2
Billy - court 15 match 3
Oliver C - court 16 match 1