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British Tennis Forum -> British men discussion section -> Week 25 - LTA Wimbledon wild card play-offs (pre-qualifying)
Post Info TOPIC: Week 25 - LTA Wimbledon wild card play-offs (pre-qualifying)
JonH comes home


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RE: Week 25 - LTA Wimbledon wild card play-offs (pre-qualifying)
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pauldepstein wrote:
JonH comes home wrote:

Biggest question for me is, do we think there is a chance the LTA will provide better access to a draw and scores this time? Surely no reason they couldn't do from a tech perspective, posting a live scores feed can't be difficult in this day and age. They have , for some reason, created a secrecy around this in the past that, to me, makes no sense.

Is there any chance they will be more open and communicative this time around - at the very least posting the scores at the end of each round or as matches finish, as opposed to word of mouth from the one journalist allowed in to watch proceedings?!

I think I know the answer but hoping someone will say it is all going to be different this year!!!

The "secrecy" does make sense to me.  There are several considerations.  One is that there is a no-spectators policy.  However, suppose a person shows up at reception and asks to see the play.  Does Security really want to create bad feeling and argument by being firm and send people back home?  (Spoiler alert -- no, people try to be kind and accommodate others).  Now, given this no-spectator policy (which is prominently displayed in the pdf), does it make sense to create more pressure for spectator demand by releasing live scores?  No.  Of course, this leads to the question of why there is a no-spectator policy.  I can only speculate about this.  Clearly accommodating spectators would demand a lot of work and resources, and the decision seems to be made that these resources are better spent on the main Wimbledon events.

Also, if there was a live feed, bookmakers would definitely want to offer bets and would want their reps to have access to the events, and this could create separate issues.

With regard to the no-spectator policy, I do recall one year where a player had an unusually large number of guests who were very voluble (but not during rallies, only when points were over).  I think the tournament officials reacted adversely but I don't have details about the controversy (if there was any).  Of course, I won't reveal the player's name on a public forum.  However, the upshot is that this probably made them even more determined to limit the spectators.

In short, a no-spectator policy is bound to result in secrecy.  So the real question would seem to be: "Why are live spectators not allowed?" and I have attempted to suggest some answers.

 

 

 

Thanks Paul - even if that is the logic behind a non live scoring process (I recall CD, I think, explaining the no spectator policy as being in place to avoid the need to catering or security or toilets or other amenities) , providing results as they come in would surely not be an issue? The gambling is done and dusted and, tbh, once play is done results will tend to get out on someone social media without too long a wait. Having results collated and announced in one place would seem sensible?!  



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Coup Droit


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I don't think that was me, Jon

The facilities thing makes no sense to me at all

After all, each player has a certain number of people with them - so toilets, food etc has to be laid on, whatever

As does security - you can't just assume because they're X's mates, that's everything's fine

The amount of spectators would be small - it wouldn't change anything - it'll be a fraction of the players and their friends/family - just look at how many go to the W35s say at the NTC - barely a dozen

It's ridiculous that spectators aren't allowed

I remember one savvy member of this forum used to go and hang round the gates and get one of the players (chosen at random) to sign them in as a guest

Very sensible tactics





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JonH comes home


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Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think that was me, Jon

The facilities thing makes no sense to me at all

After all, each player has a certain number of people with them - so toilets, food etc has to be laid on, whatever

As does security - you can't just assume because they're X's mates, that's everything's fine

The amount of spectators would be small - it wouldn't change anything - it'll be a fraction of the players and their friends/family - just look at how many go to the W35s say at the NTC - barely a dozen

It's ridiculous that spectators aren't allowed

I remember one savvy member of this forum used to go and hang round the gates and get one of the players (chosen at random) to sign them in as a guest

Very sensible tactics

 Sorry, my bad! Someone said it sorry to throw it at you!! 



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Coup Droit


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No problem !

And I stand by why I think it's daft reasoning anyway (even if it is official reasoning)

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the addict


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I think you'd be lucky to get yourself signed in on the day now - coach and guest passes have to be applied for in advance.

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Coup Droit


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the addict wrote:

I think you'd be lucky to get yourself signed in on the day now - coach and guest passes have to be applied for in advance.

 Probaby because they read our forum biggrinbiggrinbiggrin



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pauldepstein


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Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think that was me, Jon

The facilities thing makes no sense to me at all

After all, each player has a certain number of people with them - so toilets, food etc has to be laid on, whatever

As does security - you can't just assume because they're X's mates, that's everything's fine

The amount of spectators would be small - it wouldn't change anything - it'll be a fraction of the players and their friends/family - just look at how many go to the W35s say at the NTC - barely a dozen

It's ridiculous that spectators aren't allowed

I remember one savvy member of this forum used to go and hang round the gates and get one of the players (chosen at random) to sign them in as a guest

Very sensible tactics

         It was me who hung around and asked the players (though I may not be the only one).  I wasn't "round the gates" but in the sign-in office.  Also, I did google-image research the night before so that I could address the competitors by name -- that does a lot to help establish credibility.  Also, I would ask only the men, because for a man to approach unknown females one generation younger in that way, did not  feel appropriate.  This was quite a restriction because the women would arrive a lot earlier.  Since last year, that tactic has been unavailable since the players can no longer arrange guest passes on the day of the event.  



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Paul Epstein
pauldepstein


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Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think that was me, Jon

The facilities thing makes no sense to me at all

After all, each player has a certain number of people with them - so toilets, food etc has to be laid on, whatever

As does security - you can't just assume because they're X's mates, that's everything's fine

The amount of spectators would be small - it wouldn't change anything - it'll be a fraction of the players and their friends/family - just look at how many go to the W35s say at the NTC - barely a dozen

It's ridiculous that spectators aren't allowed

I remember one savvy member of this forum used to go and hang round the gates and get one of the players (chosen at random) to sign them in as a guest

Very sensible tactics

          I wouldn't describe the number of spectators as such a small "fraction".  Extrapolating from Futures events which I think are considered not as big a deal because they don't have the Wimbledon branding, I'd expect around 50 spectators, and I think this would be enough to put more pressure on the amenities and catering.



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Paul Epstein
Coup Droit


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pauldepstein wrote:
Coup Droit wrote:

I don't think that was me, Jon

The facilities thing makes no sense to me at all

After all, each player has a certain number of people with them - so toilets, food etc has to be laid on, whatever

As does security - you can't just assume because they're X's mates, that's everything's fine

The amount of spectators would be small - it wouldn't change anything - it'll be a fraction of the players and their friends/family - just look at how many go to the W35s say at the NTC - barely a dozen

It's ridiculous that spectators aren't allowed

I remember one savvy member of this forum used to go and hang round the gates and get one of the players (chosen at random) to sign them in as a guest

Very sensible tactics

          I wouldn't describe the number of spectators as such a small "fraction".  Extrapolating from Futures events which I think are considered not as big a deal because they don't have the Wimbledon branding, I'd expect around 50 spectators, and I think this would be enough to put more pressure on the amenities and catering.

 I think 50 is hugely optimistic 

The Wimbledon branding is unknown outisde a small hardcore number of people - who live all over the country and won't come down to London for it

There's zero publicity

And even so, if there's 32 players on day 1, with 2 tagalongs per person, you've got 32 +64 i.e. about 100, plus all the regular coaches and infrastructure people, so an extra 30 or so is a small percentage difference 

It's not possible that the food can't cater for a little more - it's barely more than sandwiches anyway

Security is practically zero when you go to the NTC (i.e. the bod centre) so it can't be anything here either - I've never been stopped at the NTC, never been asked to open my bag, or anything 

And toilets are toilets - 200 people (half men, half women) can manage with the toilets they have, which are fine   - Aorangi Park is very well equipped 

It's utterly daft, IMO, to say they can't manage a few spectators IF THEY WANTED TO (which they obviously don't)  



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Lambda


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wolf wrote:

They have provided live scores for a few years now have they not?

Yes, there have been live scores for the last 2 years.

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JonH comes home


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Lambda wrote:
wolf wrote:

They have provided live scores for a few years now have they not?

 

Yes, there have been live scores for the last 2 years.

 Ok, cool. In the lta website ?



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pauldepstein


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Coup Droit wrote:

          I wouldn't describe the number of spectators as such a small "fraction".  Extrapolating from Futures events which I think are considered not as big a deal because they don't have the Wimbledon branding, I'd expect around 50 spectators, and I think this would be enough to put more pressure on the amenities and catering.

 I think 50 is hugely optimistic 

The Wimbledon branding is unknown outisde a small hardcore number of people - who live all over the country and won't come down to London for it

There's zero publicity

And even so, if there's 32 players on day 1, with 2 tagalongs per person, you've got 32 +64 i.e. about 100, plus all the regular coaches and infrastructure people, so an extra 30 or so is a small percentage difference 

It's not possible that the food can't cater for a little more - it's barely more than sandwiches anyway

Security is practically zero when you go to the NTC (i.e. the bod centre) so it can't be anything here either - I've never been stopped at the NTC, never been asked to open my bag, or anything 

And toilets are toilets - 200 people (half men, half women) can manage with the toilets they have, which are fine   - Aorangi Park is very well equipped 

It's utterly daft, IMO, to say they can't manage a few spectators IF THEY WANTED TO (which they obviously don't)  

 I don't know the reason for the no-spectators policy but it's hard to say that anything is "utterly daft" without hearing the policymaker's case.  Andy Murray used to train there regularly and there were about as many spectators for his training sessions as for an average LTA playoff match.  I wonder whether pleasing Murray's team (if there are concerns about his privacy while training) had anything to do with it.  If that is the reason, that could explain both the policy and the reason for not explaining it.  Announcing that Murray was limiting the numbers wouldn't be good for Murray's public image.  I noticed that Murray totally blanked out the spectators to his training, which is different to how Kyrgios or Monfils would have behaved.

On a somewhat minor detail, last year I noticed that it was basically just sandwiches.  However, in previous years, gourmet restaurant cooking has been available with a wide menu (and prices to match).  I wonder how the food will be this week?  



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Paul Epstein
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-- Edited by the addict on Tuesday 17th of June 2025 08:37:55 PM

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Coup Droit


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Sorry, I should have said 'utterly daft to me'

You don't put a whole event behind closed doors for the sake of one player

And the LTA HAVE given their case - or, at least, they did several years ago, pre-covid, it might have changed - but then it was to do with monitoring the grounds in the run-up to Wimbledon, and not having enough personnel

But when challenged about how that worked, when all the players and their team members and their families were let in, and the public numbers would be quite small (another one of their reasons i.e. it didn't matter), they didn't reply and the guy I spoke to didn't really have an answer

I also asked why they didn't use somewhere else, then - after all, if they team entrouages are an issue in themselves, and the public can't support an interesting Wimbledon element, then that means you have the wrong venue. But again, that didn't get a precise answer.

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JonH comes home


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-- Edited by JonH comes home on Tuesday 17th of June 2025 08:41:14 PM

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